Pulp Fiction

[criterionmaster]

Carried over from the "Rate the Last..." thread.

kiddo said:

Pulp Fiction (Quentin Tarantino) 1994
Saw this with my class today while sitting in a bus. It is a great film, with some excellent dialogue and acting, nice cinematography and wonderful music. The only negative aspect here is that there isn't that much of a deep message or anything. Maybe not a masterpiece, but a very entertaining film with many qualities.
**** (out of five)

nomansvally said:

You never seen Pulp Fiction before, or? I can't count how many times I've watched it or seen scenes from it. When I was 12-13 it was the number one film every boy in my neighbourhood talked about.

kiddo said:

Hehe, no, it's my third or fourth rewatch I think. Sorry, it didn't sound like that, I guess.

criterionmaster said:

Pulp Fiction is one of my favorites. I can watch it all the time, it never gets old. Not all films need deep messages.

ie said:

SPOILERTASTIC BUT YOU HAVE SEEN PULP FICTION SO THAT IS OKAY.

Actually, the message behind Pulp Fiction is redemption, which is a fairly common theme in movies, but is set to the game of life and death in this movie. Take note of who lives and who dies, in terms of their actions toward others. I can't remember 100%, but I believe most if not all of the characters who die during the events of Pulp Fiction were involved with dishonesty in one form or another, and those who lived broke away from that.

Some depth, but not as much as other movies.

police386 said:

it's one of those movies where those who criticise its over-violence (which is mostly, if not entirely off-screen, by the way) fail to realize that the violent/mature content actually criticizes those exact acts...i hate when people say that this movie's too violent. i agree that the dishonest people dying's a good point, but i don't pay too much attention to that...i see pulp fiction as a fun, incredibly unique film with fresh, snappy dialogue. probably one of the only films without a clear-cut "message" i've ever see that i feel comfortable calling a masterpiece.

dontdigonswine said:

Pulp Fiction's deep message is to point out the impact films have on our lives. It is truly the film for anyone who loves movies. It is every reason why people love movies, it is exactly what the title suggests. But it has the best script (imo) ever, probably the most unoriginal stories but told in the most original way. The impact it has had on the film industry since its creation is enough to demand it respect, but the film itself is without a doubt a masterpiece.

[agentknight]

Too violent imo.











>_>

[ie]

agentknight said:

Too violent imo.











>_>

And your signature...




THE SUITCASE CONTAINED LIGHT!

[kiddo]

ie said:

SPOILERTASTIC BUT YOU HAVE SEEN PULP FICTION SO THAT IS OKAY.

Actually, the message behind Pulp Fiction is redemption, which is a fairly common theme in movies, but is set to the game of life and death in this movie. Take note of who lives and who dies, in terms of their actions toward others. I can't remember 100%, but I believe most if not all of the characters who die during the events of Pulp Fiction were involved with dishonesty in one form or another, and those who lived broke away from that.

Ok, so Butch (Bruce Willis) is an honest man, since he doesn't die? Ok. Marsellus Wallace is an honest man, because as far I'm concerned, he did not die either. I'm ok with Jules, that in fact does ripend - and do live.

I agree that Pulp is a great film, but if I want something deep (which I very often do), this is not the first film I seek out.

[ie]

Well, the whole Butch and Marsellus Wallace thing came down to the scene in the pawn shop.

Butch saved Wallace. If he had not, Butch would have still got away, but he most likely would have been caught somewhere, eventually. So that's how he redeemed himself for the botched boxing fix.

Wallace, in return, shows mercy toward Butch. Wallace lost a botched boxing fix; everyone was in on it, his reputation may not be what it once was, he probably lost a good deal of money and friends. The "you've lost your L.A. privileges" thing is a way of slightly saving face, but you can tell that Wallace is no longer after revenge.

So basically, both started out greedy, but by the end of the movie, both are glad to be alive.



One character who I've been having a bit of trouble fitting this logic to is Mia Wallace. In the end, I could imagine that after overdosing, she decides to go straight. That isn't specifically said, but it would make sense that if you survived something tramatic like that, you might stay the fuck away.

As for surviving the overdose, I'll just throw out that she probably didn't die because she accidentally overdosed (took the wrong drugs, got carried away, something like that). I don't rememeber the specifics exactly, so you may need to correct that, but the basic idea is there.


Oh yeah, Marvin's an interesting one as well.

You can feel free to talk about why Marvin was shot... in the face.

[criterionmaster]

Marvin was shot as an attempt (or sign) from God trying to get these two caught for what they have done, but they both outsmarted God (at least for the time being). They pulled over, got it taken care of, Jules decides the right thing and quits his job, whereas Vincent doesn't and later (earlier in the film) gets what's coming to him.

That’s the only way I can look at it, plus Marvin had involvement in the whole thing some how, so he was in turn deserving of the bullet in the face.

[ie]

Very good point there.

In addition, you could think about it like this: Marvin caused the guys in the apartment to be killed. He ratted them out, even though his intent probably wasn't to get them killed.


I was looking through the Wikipedia article, trying to see if I missed anyone. Pumpkin and Honey Bunny survived because they did not rob the diner.

But what about Jimmy? He and the awesome Wolf helped criminals.

Well, at first Jimmy is acting, well, I don't know; it's reasonable how he was acting, but I don't think he was getting on anyone's good side with the infamous DNS line. Although in the end, Jimmy assisted two people in their time of need. He sacrificed time, house, marriage and linen, in order to give Vincent and Jules a second chance at living a decent life.

The Wolf helped in this regard too. He sacrificed time, perhaps a decent chunk of money to Jimmy and his car (at the hands of Vincent), in order to both help Vincent and Jules, and to do a good job for Marsellus Wallace.



Has anyone seen the movie with the subtitle commentary track?

I looked at it a little bit, and it had some very interesting observations. Such as how Jules and Vincent not entering the apartment, in the beginning, added a bit of suspense to the movie because it delayed the inevitable. There was also suspense added subtly in the scene where Jules drinks the soda: by keeping focus squarely on Jules, by having that Point of View shot from Brett's perspective, Jules suddenly makes drinking a soda become intimidating.

Hey, Flock of Seagulls!

[criterionmaster]

Well like you said, Jimmy and Wolf didn't die because they were helping. Jimmy helping out a friend, it wasn't taken as, "Jimmy is committing a crime by helping criminals," it was more like Jimmy is helping a friend out in time of need. So that's why he doesn't die.

The Wolf doesn't die because he is also helping out, he is helping two guys out of a sticky situation, doesn't matter that that situation is a crime, still helping them.

And as for your mention of Mia, I think her overdose was God telling her she better shape up, scaring her into stopping all this. Plus she wasn’t really involved in Marcellus’ business.

As for that subtitle track, I put it on before but didn't really pay attention to it. I liked that in the beginning it pointed out if you look close you see John Travolta walking to go take a "squirt" or whatever he calls it. That’s a nice little touch for us fans.

[kiddo]

I see what you guys are saying, but I think your points about God and so are a bit vague. Of course, these are interpretations which are exclusively your own, but if I may speek out of my own mouth, Pulp is not so much about redemption as you guys want it to be. So the moral is, "God punish those who do something dishonest, while he save those who does things honestly, even if it means helping a bunch of killers". Ok, fine by me. But there's not much great and profound in that.

[criterionmaster]

Well I am not saying that that is the message, I was just giving my opinions if that was the message, then this is why and so on. I actually don't want there to be a message in the film, I hate when films try to force a message on the viewer; this is just perfect without there being anything more beneath the surface. But it is fine with me no matter what you believe.

Now my question to you, even if the film doesn't have a message, can films without messages still not be perfect films? It seems to me that your reason for it not getting a 5 is because there is no message, but not all films do have messages. So is it impossible to get a perfect grade without a message?

[kiddo]

No. Of course not. It all depends on in what level the film connects with me. How is the subjective point of view harmonic with the content of a film? I agree that there is nice with films that doesn't force a message at the viewer, but what I'm talking about here is the things you get out of, say, Rouge (which lost the battle of "best film" in Cannes because of Pulp, I think); it's something you take inside yourself and consider your own life and so with the film in mind - and what it tries to bring with it to the viewer. This is not necessarily a "message", more is it an undescribable aspect inside it, that makes things more clear (or unclear for that matter) and get you to think in a new way or something. Pulp Fiction doesn't do that to me, and therefore, it doesn't get top score.

Sorry if I was very unclear. Just ask if you wonder about something.

[criterionmaster]

No, I understand it. I know what you are saying about films connecting with you, you really can't argue, either the film does or it doesn't. Like I connect with Untitled a whole lot, which is why I rank it ahead of so many classic films. I still love everything about Pulp Fiction.

What is everyones favorite parts?

[ie]

The Wolf: That's thirty minutes away. I'll be there in ten.


The Wolf: Fair enough. Now I drive real fucking fast, so keep up. I get my car back any differently than when I gave it, Monster Joe's gonna be disposing of two bodies.


The Wolf: Maybe I can give you guys a ride. Where do you live?
Vincent: Redondo Beach.
Jules: Inglewood.
The Wolf: It's your future... I see a cab ride. Move out of the styx, gentlemen.



Yeah, the Wolf is the Man.

[criterionmaster]

Indeed, the Wolf is amazing. Keitel is fantastic!

Two of my many favorite parts would have to be the "Dead Nigger Storage" part, for some reason I just find that hilarious. It is such a good, awkward scene, but one that I can always laugh at. And the other, probably one of my favorite parts in any movie, is the "Say What Again" part. I just flip out over it, can't get enough. It is so good! Look at Jackson's eyes when he drinks all that guys drink, I love it! I can almost quote that entire scene.

[kiddo]

I think my favorite part is when Vincent and Jules are talking together at the end, in the restaurant, before the robbery. "I just don't dig on swine, that's all". Priceless.

And the part with Mia; from "Son of a Preacher Man" to "Girl, You'll be a Woman Soon". I also love the sequence when Vincent is driving the car, while taking his drugs (just before he meet Mia). I just love the visuals and the soundtrack in that (short) scene.

[ie]

kiddo said:

I think my favorite part is when Vincent and Jules are talking together at the end, in the restaurant, before the robbery. "I just don't dig on swine, that's all". Priceless.

That's probably dontdigonswine's favorite scene too.

[jumpingjackflash]

Yeah the 'one charming pig' line is my favourite in the movie.

Pulp Fiction is such a great film, 2 and a half hours never went by so fast. Watching it you really are on the edge of your seat and you feel you are experiencing something new and important in terms of cinema as with all of Tarantinos films barring maybe Jackie Brown.

Also, I heard an interesting theory about the suitcase containing Marcellus Wallace's soul which if you watch the film with this in mind works in the context.

[criterionmaster]

I have also heard that and I laugh at that, if it was his soul then why would the guy robbing the diner at the end go "is that what I think it is?" How would he know what Wallace's soul looks like? I think when you look in you see whatever you desire most, the gold light just represents this. So each person who looks in sees something different, but then again this "theory" has never been mentioned before, but I kinda lean towards it. But really it could be anything.

EDIT: But I don't rule out it being his soul, how does it work in context?

[kiddo]

It's obvious what's in the suitcase: A bunch of golden rings - which, in the past, belonged to that guy giving Mia a foot massage.

[ie]

Actually, there's a bright light in the suitcase.

A diamond-plated light.

Worth several zillion dollars.

With the power to control the universe.

[criterionmaster]

My apologies to blackmoses, I didn’t realize there was an old thread for the film. Well here is what was in that old thread pertaining to the film:

blackmoses said:

Talk about this pile of crap here.

ptahole said:

Nice try. This movie is great.

criterionmaster said:

Yes, this film got me to like better films. I don't like when people talk shit on this film. To me it's a perfect film. I love everything about it.

captainofbeef said:

My second favorite film of all time. Absolutly no flaws what so ever in this film.

andruini said:

It's okay.

agentknight said:

The more I think about itm the less I like it. I used to really be into Tarantino, but filmmakers like Lynch and Kitano have shown be that a movie can be more than just violence and funny dialogue.

Don't know if they still feel the same way about the film or not?

[captainofbeef]

I feel the same way. No flaws at all, second favorite movie of all time.

[criterionmaster]

Here is a review I wrote a long time ago for the film:

criterionmaster said:

Pulp Fiction
Written and Directed by Quentin Tarantino
A Film Review by Dan Kinem

Pulp Fiction - Favorite Films #1

The first time I saw Pulp Fiction was when I was shopping at GameStop and I had like 10 DVD’s, my dad comes in and says put all this crap down and just buy this. He picks up a copy of Pulp Fiction and I said “ok.” We bought it and I went home and watched it immediately.

I have never seen a movie before or since that left a mark on me like this film did. The movie has everything I look for in a film and is done in such an original way.

The way Tarantino took stories we had all known before: the story of hit men, the boxer who is suppose to throw the fight and doesn’t, the man who has to take his bosses wife out on a date. It’s all stories that have been told but the way Tarantino shows us these stories is unbelievable, mixing in his famous style of dialogue to spice up each story.

The film starts off with a man and women sitting in a diner discussing if they should robbed this place or not. Never has the beginning of a film pulled me in so perfectly. I was in for the ride from the beginning all the way to the end. The opening theme starts up, a tear comes to my eye every time I hear it.

Next we are thrown into the story of two hit man, Jules (Samuel L. Jackson) and Vincent (John Travolta), just another job for them. Just like anyone going to work, they talk about everyday things. Somehow Tarantino is able to not only make this dialogue interesting but he is also able to make the dialogue real. It was unlike anything I had every seen. Two men getting ready to kill some guys and talking about foot messages! What follows this conversation is what may be the most famous scene from the whole film and what I think is one of the best scenes in film history. Their job is to be getting a suitcase for their boss Marcellus Wallace. This scene is Tarantino’s shining moment in my eyes; it’s what makes him a screenwriting genius. The way Samuel L. Jackson says his dialogue is better than any actor could in my opinion. He talks about what they called Quarter Pounder’s with Cheese in France, tries the man’s hamburger and explains why he is hardly able to get ‘em, and quotes a passage from the bible! It is one of the coolest things ever put on film.

The next story that we are thrown into is the story of Vincent (John Travolta) taking out his bosses' wife (Uma Thurman) on a date. Before he walks up he is saying to himself he will just take her out then leave. Nothing will happen is what he thinks…

After that we see Bruce Willis’ character on the run after he wins a boxing match he was suppose to lose. But Marcellus Wallace doesn’t get fucked over by anyone.

Tarantino is able to weave in and out of the stories which are all told out of order. He is able to put little parts in from each of the stories. He takes you through the lives of criminals like no other director has or could have. He treats each character like a real person and not like what we perceive a criminal to be like.

The film goes through each story perfectly ending with the beginning. The last scene is the scene that ties the movie together, for me, in a nice bow.

Tarantino for me is the ultimate director/writer. He takes everything I like about cinema and somehow is able to put it together with his own touches and his great dialogue. His love for cinema can be seen in ever frame of his films.

Pulp Fiction is one of the all-time great works of art, if not for its innovative storytelling than for its brilliant performances. Tarantino has changed the way we see movies and I think will go one doing so for years to come.

A+

Now obviously I don't feel it is the best film ever anymore, but most of what I say is still true.

[agentknight]

I used to really be into Tarantino

Ha, what a moron.

[ie]

That was a self quote, there...



[11|25 09:54 PM] me: I rewatched Pulp Fiction earlier tonight, and I'm kind of considering lowering its score down to a 9/10.
[11|25 09:55 PM] criterionmaster: oh god, i may go and throw up
[11|25 09:55 PM] criterionmaster: a 9, oh boy. I have re-watched that film about 9 million times and it gets better with each viewing, what made it worse to you?
[11|25 09:57 PM] me: I was trying to really see behind the movie, look at how it was shot, and I was just thinking too outside of the movie. I was still watching along, but it just wasn't doing it for me as much as it did, even though I still like it. It's just not one of my favorites.
[11|25 09:58 PM] criterionmaster: i see
[11|25 09:59 PM] me: I just don't think it's one of my favorite movies period. It's still going to be in my Top 50, though.


My brother brought up this up: Remember the part where Butch shoots Vincent?

He reasoned that had Jules not given up on being a gangster, he would have been assigned along with Vincent to be at Butch's appartment, and would have killed Butch while Vincent was finishing his book.

Which was an interesting way of looking at it, to me, because to get into that frame of mind where the whole movie is about redemption, Jules leaves and Vincent later dies, setting up the point that Vincent died because he did not believe, whereas you could also look at it because Vincent died because Jules believed in this event.


First time watching it, after Jules and Vincent get "shot," after thinking about that scene, I thought: those bullet holes were probably there before hand. Never bothered to check, though.

[captainofbeef]

I'm gonna take up Black on a previous challenge and ask him to write a review of this film. Tell us why you don't like it anymore and why your opinion has changed on it.

[blackmoses]

I am. I don't know when I will be done though.

[ie]

After a re-watch, my opinion of Pulp Fiction changed. It's not one of my favorite movies anymore, but it's still a good and important movie.

I honestly believe that a few points during the movie drag on a bit too long (namely parts during Butch's section and parts during the Vincent/Mia section), but I think it's a well done movie. If you like it, great, and if you don't like it, that's okay. I give it a 9/10.

[blackmoses]

I must admit, the first time I saw Pulp Fiction I absolutely loved the film. But how could I not? My film taste was very bad and I had seen very few good films. I was just getting into film and this is defiantly a film that an average young teenager would like. It has a bunch of killing, drugs, and fun dialog in it. Now my film taste has drastically changed and I realize that this film isn't as good as everyone makes it out to be.

I thought more and more about the film and realized that Pulp Fiction isn't that good and just has drugs, sodomy, violence, and cool dialog in it. It has funny moments and the acting is good, but those thing didn't make the film much better. I re-watched the film a while ago and realized that the dialog wasn't as good as I remembered. The acting was still good, but nothing amazing in my opinion. I don't really love any of the parts in the film but the scenes are not the worst things in the world. Pulp Fiction isn't as bad as a lot of people say it is, but it is defiantly one of the most overrated films ever. I don't see how anyone can think it is so great unless you are a young teenager and don't know anything about film and just think the movie is cool because of the dialog and killing and other stuff like that. Their isn't anything in this film that makes it one of the best films ever or that makes it as amazing as a lot of people says it is. So overall, the film isn't the worst thing in the world but not anywhere near one of the best. So I give it a 5 or a 6/10(Not the worst film in the world but SO overrated).

[criterionmaster]

Okay, here is a back and forth me and blackmoses had on aim:

lillnoonch9: Pulp Fiction is soo bad
lillnoonch9: I can't stand you!
CriterionMaster: its so good
lillnoonch9: NO
lillnoonch9: It is terrible
CriterionMaster: no
lillnoonch9: Yes!
lillnoonch9: Pulp Fiction is a movie for 13-16 year olds that don't know anything about film and like non-stop swearing and violence.
CriterionMaster: please, don't make me respond to that on here. i will just embarrass you, and i would rather embarass you in the pulp fiction thread
lillnoonch9: O god the film sucks it's just abunch of violence
CriterionMaster: okay first of, that shows how little you know about the film. every violent thing that goes on in the film, goes on off screen. which shows how powerful the images are, if you think it is violent. watch it again, everytime something happens, the camera moves, and you don't see it.
lillnoonch9: What does it matter if it's off screen it is still happenign
CriterionMaster: you just called it violent, when if anything, the film is anti-violence. its like a story about war, its going to be violent, well the story in pulp fiction calls for violence, tarantino doesn't give it to us. he gives us the seconds before, and the seconds after.
lillnoonch9: It not only abunch of violence but it is abounch of bad diolog and and such overrated acting and the story is just nuts
CriterionMaster: please, just post your thoughts
lillnoonch9: O god how does the film even have EVERYTHINg you like in film it doesn't have anything

I must admit, the first time I saw Pulp Fiction I absolutely loved the film. But how could I not? My film taste was very bad and I had seen very few good films. I was just getting into film and this is defiantly a film that an average young teenager would like. It has a bunch of killing, drugs, and fun dialog in it. Now my film taste has drastically changed and I realize that this film isn't as good as everyone makes it out to be.

I thought more and more about the film and realized that Pulp Fiction isn't that good and just has drugs, sodomy, violence, and cool dialog in it. It has funny moments and the acting is good, but those thing didn't make the film much better. I re-watched the film a while ago and realized that the dialog wasn't as good as I remembered. The acting was still good, but nothing amazing in my opinion. I don't really love any of the parts in the film but the scenes are not the worst things in the world. Pulp Fiction isn't as bad as a lot of people say it is, but it is defiantly one of the most overrated films ever. I don't see how anyone can think it is so great unless you are a young teenager and don't know anything about film and just think the movie is cool because of the dialog and killing and other stuff like that. Their isn't anything in this film that makes it one of the best films ever or that makes it as amazing as a lot of people says it is. So overall, the film isn't the worst thing in the world but not anywhere near one of the best. So I give it a 5 or a 6/10(Not the worst film in the world but SO overrated).

The dialogue is some of the most original dialogue in film. Never has a director showed his love for film so much, and even with his dialogue you can see it. There are the obvious homage’s to Godard (so are you saying Godard's dialogue wasn't good?), and it is exactly how me and you talk in real life, bringing up pop culture things, I don't see why you would want unnatural dialogue (to us) in the film, it seems like it would be much better to have characters talk like us. The acting was some of the best of the year, and some of the best ever. Those are some of your favorite actors of all time (Harvey Keitel, Christopher Walken, Jackson, Uma, etc.).

sodomy

Okay, so you don't love any of the scenes in the film but you quote them all the time? There is not a scene in the film you could say you don’t like.

May I be so bold as to say my knowledge of film crushes yours, and I still think it is one of the best films ever? So please do not try and say that just because someone likes a film they know nothing, because I could easily take it the other way by saying you know nothing for not liking the film. Or for hating Apocalypse Now when you first saw. But I don't.

The thing that makes it great is because everything in the film is great! Love for films is found in every frame. If you made a movie you would wish it would turn out like Pulp Fiction, but yet you don't like it because other people do. Plus like I said before, the film has much more than violence, which I told you is very little in the film, it has a love for cinema.

And still after all this you are generalizing, you are saying “acting = bad, overrated, scenes = not good, etc.” A six is a very low grade for a film that is just overrated.


Beed, take it away from here.