Grave of the Fireflies

[criterionmaster]

From the "Rate the Last..." thread:

blackmoses said:

Grave of the Fireflies 3/10

***********SPOILER***************

I thought this was going to be fantastic, but I was very, very disappointed! I don't see how people liked this so much (people that like this tell me). Right at the begging of the film it's obvious what is going to happen at the end. I found Seita and Setsuko very annoying! I don't see why their aunt disliked them so much. Why is she so mean? It seemed a little harsh that she would treat them like that after a horrendous aftermath to their life, and especially during war, I think there should have been more exploration of that family's history. Then the aunt sells their mothers cloths for food and gives half of the food to Seita, but they are starving the whole film? They went through way to much suffering. But as someone in the movie pointed out, the boy could have tried to find any kind of work to afford food to eat. Also I can't believe the mother just left her two year old daughter with her older brother during war. A mother would never just leave her daughter in the middle of war with her older brother. Some parts during the film Seita just leaves his little sister alone in that little place their living in after they leave thier aunts house. So a two year old is in the middle of war all alone, but the whole film he acts like he loves his sister so much yet he just leaves her alone in the middle of war, it was his fault she died, if he wasn't so lazy. Also Setsuko seemed to be able to comprehend way too much for being so young. This is extremely overrated to me.

I normally don’t call people’s opinions wrong, but…. I really do think you missed every single point of the movie possible. Nothing you say has anything to do with why you don’t like the film; because you disagree with the characters actions? That is a stupid reason to not like a movie, you can’t agree with everyone’s actions in real life, and since this is probably the most realistic animated character study I have ever seen then there is really no way you could think the actions were unrealistic. The film was better than any Miyazaki I have seen so far. You didn’t say why you didn’t like the film at all, other than it is overrated. You must have not been paying attention to the film, or you were drunk or something because most of the things you say didn’t even happen in the film, and one thing you say about you could tell the end of the film is the dumbest argument I have EVER heard since one of the first, if not the first, line in the movie was “I die at the end of this movie.” Christ. You need to re-watch the film and actually pay attention this time because you are making no sense. It was one of the best films ever made, so I can’t just let this ridiculous “opinion” go by without saying anything. I am surprised ie was so nice to you, this may be the biggest “miss” watching of a film I have ever heard about.

Here were some thoughts I wrote down while watching the film (unfinished): “The character’s actions and little nuances are what make them so believable and realistic. Like the scene with catching the fireflies and the kid crushes it, it was that little reaction and character moment that I loved so much. The relationship between the brother and sister was beautiful and felt so real. The scene with them on the beach together was amazing.”

Here is ie’s original response to you:

ie said:

It'd be better if I just tell you this on AIM, because this thread is too busy for my taste, but here goes:

{{{{SPOILERS FOR GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES}}}

- The "ending" is shown first that way the end of the movie doesn't end on such a sad note.

- Their aunt is not really "mean." She just sees them as lazy, and doesn't have any tolerance for lazy people, when Seita just thought he could get by because there was no school or work.

- Well, they're not starving until after they go to the "shelter." I mean, there's a war going on, so it's not like they have everything, but it's enough to eat and get by.

- Part of the problem was Seita had a childish kind of pride to him, where he could have found work if he wanted to, but he honestly thought he could get by.

- Umm... the mother died toward the beginning of the movie. The father died before the firebombing even began (as we found out in the scene where Seita goes to the post office and finds out that the division or unit his father was in had no survivors). So there was no choice, really, Setsuko had to go with Seita.

- I think Seita was honestly looking out for Setsuko's best interests, but the movie shows that children just can't take care of other children (that it's the parent's responsibility). Everything he did was to take care of Setsuko and try to get by, but before he could realize that he wasn't able to handle the burdens, it was too late.

- Children can often comprehend more than most people will give them credit for.

- Another thing you didn't mention but gets mentioned a lot: after Setsuko dies, Seita literally burns all the money he received giving her a proper burial.

- This is one of my favorite movies period, so I'd have to disagree with you there. I don't really care if you like this movie or not, but I think you should read up on it, get the details straight, before you pass it off.

[blackmoses]

I will rewrite some of my thoughts on the film. Maybe I did miss the point of the movie, which would explain why I didn't like the film so much. But I was paying attention the whole time.

[criterionmaster]

Reading what blackmoses has to say may give people seisours. This is a conversation we had on AIM, but for some reason he signed off before I could say the last thing:

*Midnightgraddogs is blackmoses.

CriterionMaster: oh god, re-watch grave of the fireflies within the next second. it is the best thing ever
midnightgraddogs:
I was JUST about to say somthing about this
midnightgraddogs: I can't belive you liked it
CriterionMaster: there is no possible way not to like the movie
CriterionMaster: its like everything you said about the movie was the exact opposite in the actually flm
CriterionMaster: film*
midnightgraddogs: No.
midnightgraddogs: Everything I said was fact
CriterionMaster: that is so dumb
midnightgraddogs: Yes that movie is
CriterionMaster: what are you talking about, just write your thoughts on clerks II and grave soon
midnightgraddogs: No thoughts are needed for Grave
CriterionMaster: i am excited to see what you actually don't like about the movie lol!!.... oh you idiot, they are definitely needed
midnightgraddogs: I don't even remember the movie
CriterionMaster: because you didn't pay attention to the movie obviously
midnightgraddogs: No because I didn't like the movie. Movies that I like stick with me
CriterionMaster: i am saying that you didn't pay enough attention or just somehow missed every single thing that happened in the film which is why you didn't like it, which is why you don't remember it
midnightgraddogs: Nope. I watched it straight through. The movie was bad
CriterionMaster: it is pointless to even discuss this with you, you don't discuss and you are wrong. rarely is there a chance to be 100% wrong, but it is for this.
CriterionMaster: there is no way you could actually like the movie you like and not like this film, unless you don't understand it
CriterionMaster: movies*
midnightgraddogs: How?
CriterionMaster: because it is a perfect film, there is not a single flaw in the movie, AND everything you said about the film didn't happen in the movie
midnightgraddogs: No. About me liking the films I like and not liking this
CriterionMaster: there isn't a flaw in this movie. i am saying you like anime so that couldn't be a reason for not liking it, and because you like war films, and there isn't a flaw. so since you like both of those things, plus there are no flaws in the movie, then there is nothing wrong with the movie, which would mean there is no way for you not to like it
midnightgraddogs: Yes, but whats the reason for watching it? To be sad?
midnightgraddogs: Thats all I got
CriterionMaster: seriously, are you fucking serious? are you serious!? the only reason for watching the graduate, to laugh. to watch balthazar, to be sad. to watch pornos, to be erroused. that is the dumbest thing ever. plus not to mention it is a character study that features the most realistic characters i have ever seen in an animated film. and that it was a stunning display of both animation and direction. flims set out to be one thing, if it is a comedy, to make you laugh, etc. then if it has other qualities to like (good performances, cinematography, etc) then that is what makes a good film. i cannot believe you would even try to say succeeding at what the film tried to do is a flaw.
midnightgraddogs: About the graduate and Au Hasard. No. But I don't want to talk about those now. Back to the film. Realistic characters? Nice try. How about the aunt, disliking them so much. Why??? I don't no. Do you have an answer for me? I don't think a real person in her possision would be so mean and treat them like that after a horrendous aftermath to their life. There was no exploration of that family's history. Then the aunt gives them some food but yet they are starving the whole film? Did I miss somthing? Anyway I think a realistic character(I am talking about the boy now) would get a job. Why didn't he? It isn't like he can't leave his little sister alone because he just left her alone all the time.
midnightgraddogs signed off at 7:51:48 PM.
CriterionMaster: Oh God, these are those same reasons you already said which make no sense. The film takes place over a long time. Here dislike for them is because the kids are so lazy, and they won't do there part, and she is a DISTANT aunt, which they said. Which would mean they are barely even close to each other. The families history?! There doesn't need to be, it would have added anything to the film, you are suppose to watch the sister and brother become closer after this terribleness has happened, not how they acted before. the families history is told a little through flashbacks and such as well, but it isn't needed at all, it isn't about the family, it is about the brother and sister. The little bit of food wouldn't last as long as the film goes on, the aunt was mean to them and he said something to her and wouldn't say sorry, so she wouldn't cook them food anymore because she felt they were ungrateful. He didn't have an oppurtunity to get a job, and he needed to take care of his sister. he rarely ever left her alone unless he was looking for food to help her, which even then wasn't for a long time.

Sorry for any misspelled words.

[blackmoses]

The film did nothing for me at all. I don't see what it could have done for you? How does what I say make no sense? What words do I need to define? If they are so "distant", then how does she know that the kid is so lazy. She has probably only met the kid few to no times in his whole life. The movie is all about the two kids, but way should I be interested in these people? I feel nothing for them. If the film is supposed to be so tuned into these two kids why does it even show them with there aunt at all. Rarely ever left her alone? He left her alone more then rarely. And the one time she was alone for a very long amout of time. Who would leave there little sister alone in the middle of war that cares that much for her? Why doesn't he just bring her with him? If he cared so much about his sister then he would have apologized to his aunt for whatever you say he need to apologize for, so that he could get food. Whats more important? His sisters life or apologizing to his aunt for some reason?

[criterionmaster]

blackmoses said:

The film did nothing for me at all. I don't see what it could have done for you? How does what I say make no sense? What words do I need to define? If they are so "distant", then how does she know that the kid is so lazy. She has probably only met the kid few to no times in his whole life. The movie is all about the two kids, but way should I be interested in these people? I feel nothing for them. If the film is supposed to be so tuned into these two kids why does it even show them with there aunt at all. Rarely ever left her alone? He left her alone more then rarely. And the one time she was alone for a very long amout of time. Who would leave there little sister alone in the middle of war that cares that much for her? Why doesn't he just bring her with him? If he cared so much about his sister then he would have apologized to his aunt for whatever you say he need to apologize for, so that he could get food. Whats more important? His sisters life or apologizing to his aunt for some reason?

It made me sad, stunned me with its amazing visuals, and made me care for the characters. It makes no sense because a lot of the stuff you say wasn't in the movie! Are you quoting the word "distant" because you are retarded or an idiot? It is said in the movie "his distant aunt" it isn't like I made it up. She didn't know they were lazy until they moved into her house for months and she found out! Please, you must have just glazed over the entire film without really paying attention. Why should you be interested in a donkey? Why should you even be interested in film with opinions like these? You don't have to care about the characters, there is a thing called a good guy and a villain, you don't always care about every character, or any of them, even though you must be heartless (retarded) not to care about them. Your reasons for not liking them is that you thought the little kid was annoying, even though she is no more annoying then any real little kid. What the fuck are you talking about!!!! Why show the aunt?! Because she is an obstacle they have to go through. You could ask general questions like you are asking about any film. You are only asking questions because you have nothing to back up your opinions. There is a war going on! That should answer all your questions as to why he does what he does. He wants what’s best for her, but he is a kid himself. And like ie said, it shows that kids need a parent.

Feel free to continue this but I suggest you actually watch the film, another time or for the first time, because there is nothing about it that you wouldn't like, so you will definitely like it if you watch it with me. Your generalizations you are making make no sense because they could be asked for EVERY single fucking film you like.

[ie]

blackmoses, blackmoses, you're really just digging a hole for yourself.

You're attempts at passing your opinions off as facts, and your sarcastic remarks like - "that is so dumb" "Yes that movie is" - just invalidate the points you are trying to make.


And not so much because I really like this movie either. Your comments could be about a movie I only passingly approve of, and I'd have the same thoughts. The thing is, you're just saying such stupid bullshit right now.

[blackmoses]

criterionmaster said:

blackmoses said:

The film did nothing for me at all. I don't see what it could have done for you? How does what I say make no sense? What words do I need to define? If they are so "distant", then how does she know that the kid is so lazy. She has probably only met the kid few to no times in his whole life. The movie is all about the two kids, but way should I be interested in these people? I feel nothing for them. If the film is supposed to be so tuned into these two kids why does it even show them with there aunt at all. Rarely ever left her alone? He left her alone more then rarely. And the one time she was alone for a very long amout of time. Who would leave there little sister alone in the middle of war that cares that much for her? Why doesn't he just bring her with him? If he cared so much about his sister then he would have apologized to his aunt for whatever you say he need to apologize for, so that he could get food. Whats more important? His sisters life or apologizing to his aunt for some reason?

It made me sad, stunned me with its amazing visuals, and made me care for the characters. It makes no sense because a lot of the stuff you say wasn't in the movie! Are you quoting the word "distant" because you are retarded or an idiot? It is said in the movie "his distant aunt" it isn't like I made it up. She didn't know they were lazy until they moved into her house for months and she found out! Please, you must have just glazed over the entire film without really paying attention. Why should you be interested in a donkey? Why should you even be interested in film with opinions like these? You don't have to care about the characters, there is a thing called a good guy and a villain, you don't always care about every character, or any of them, even though you must be heartless (retarded) not to care about them. Your reasons for not liking them is that you thought the little kid was annoying, even though she is no more annoying then any real little kid. What the fuck are you talking about!!!! Why show the aunt?! Because she is an obstacle they have to go through. You could ask general questions like you are asking about any film. You are only asking questions because you have nothing to back up your opinions. There is a war going on! That should answer all your questions as to why he does what he does. He wants what’s best for her, but he is a kid himself. And like ie said, it shows that kids need a parent.

Feel free to continue this but I suggest you actually watch the film, another time or for the first time, because there is nothing about it that you wouldn't like, so you will definitely like it if you watch it with me. Your generalizations you are making make no sense because they could be asked for EVERY single fucking film you like.

Everyone I like I like for a reason. I like the donkey for a reason. I can talk about that some other time. The film did nothing for me. It didn't stun me with its amazing visuals, or make me care for the characters. Therefore I don't like it. What am I saying that isn't in the movie? What does being an idiot or retarded have to do with quoting a word? Don't say unnecessary things. I quoted the word because I was quoting you saying it. I paid full attention to the film. I thought the film was going to be a powerful and engaging experience, but I was wrong. Maybe I thought too much of the film? You are taking me saying they were annoying a little too serious. Yes, I thought they were annoying, but that did little/nothing to change my thoughts on the film. I am asking questions because I want answers. Maybe if you answer my questions I can see why this happens and not dislike the film so much. But you are not doing that for me. Yes, it does show a kid needs a parent. So if they need a parent, why don't they stay with the aunt? What is it in the film that you think I should like so much? You keep saying I would like everything in the film. So what stuff do you think I should like? I have seen the film. I know what I am talking about. I am also going to bring this back up because you seemed to have missed it. If he cared so much about his sister and wanted what is best for her then why wouldn’t he just apologize to his aunt for whatever you say he needed to apologize for. What’s more important? His sisters life or apologizing to his aunt for some reason?

[blackmoses]

ie said:

blackmoses, blackmoses, you're really just digging a hole for yourself.

You're attempts at passing your opinions off as facts, and your sarcastic remarks like - "that is so dumb" "Yes that movie is" - just invalidate the points you are trying to make.


And not so much because I really like this movie either. Your comments could be about a movie I only passingly approve of, and I'd have the same thoughts. The thing is, you're just saying such stupid bullshit right now.

Alright I am digging myself in a hole. I don't care.

Everything I said on AIM up to where I said something about sad, was just all joking around crap. We were not being serious about the film or anything. I don't even see why he posted any of that.

What am I saying that is so stupid? I don't care if you like the film or not. I am just saying I do not like the film. I respect the fact that you do like the film, I just don't like it.

[ie]

Well, the part I was basing my argument on was the part you said was where you were just joking around. So, you kind of got me there.


Same. I respect that you don't like the movie, even though I think it's a damn shame that you don't like it.

[criterionmaster]

I just re-watched the film with my parents and it seriously made me cry the second time. One of the saddest films I have ever seen, and it is definitely worthy of being on my top list, and probably will be after I watch the features on the film. It is a timeless classic that may be the best animated film ever made.

blackmoses said:

criterionmaster said:

It made me sad, stunned me with its amazing visuals, and made me care for the characters. It makes no sense because a lot of the stuff you say wasn't in the movie! Are you quoting the word "distant" because you are retarded or an idiot? It is said in the movie "his distant aunt" it isn't like I made it up. She didn't know they were lazy until they moved into her house for months and she found out! Please, you must have just glazed over the entire film without really paying attention. Why should you be interested in a donkey? Why should you even be interested in film with opinions like these? You don't have to care about the characters, there is a thing called a good guy and a villain, you don't always care about every character, or any of them, even though you must be heartless (retarded) not to care about them. Your reasons for not liking them is that you thought the little kid was annoying, even though she is no more annoying then any real little kid. What the fuck are you talking about!!!! Why show the aunt?! Because she is an obstacle they have to go through. You could ask general questions like you are asking about any film. You are only asking questions because you have nothing to back up your opinions. There is a war going on! That should answer all your questions as to why he does what he does. He wants what’s best for her, but he is a kid himself. And like ie said, it shows that kids need a parent.

Feel free to continue this but I suggest you actually watch the film, another time or for the first time, because there is nothing about it that you wouldn't like, so you will definitely like it if you watch it with me. Your generalizations you are making make no sense because they could be asked for EVERY single fucking film you like.

Everyone I like I like for a reason. I like the donkey for a reason. I can talk about that some other time. The film did nothing for me. It didn't stun me with its amazing visuals, or make me care for the characters. Therefore I don't like it. What am I saying that isn't in the movie? What does being an idiot or retarded have to do with quoting a word? Don't say unnecessary things. I quoted the word because I was quoting you saying it. I paid full attention to the film. I thought the film was going to be a powerful and engaging experience, but I was wrong. Maybe I thought too much of the film? You are taking me saying they were annoying a little too serious. Yes, I thought they were annoying, but that did little/nothing to change my thoughts on the film. I am asking questions because I want answers. Maybe if you answer my questions I can see why this happens and not dislike the film so much. But you are not doing that for me. Yes, it does show a kid needs a parent. So if they need a parent, why don't they stay with the aunt? What is it in the film that you think I should like so much? You keep saying I would like everything in the film. So what stuff do you think I should like? I have seen the film. I know what I am talking about. I am also going to bring this back up because you seemed to have missed it. If he cared so much about his sister and wanted what is best for her then why wouldn’t he just apologize to his aunt for whatever you say he needed to apologize for. What’s more important? His sisters life or apologizing to his aunt for some reason?

How did you not like the animation, which was as good as any Miyazaki animation film, and even was done by the same guy who worked on Princess Mononoke among others? What about the characters didn't you like? That they made realistic choices and acted like an actual human being instead of making all the choices you wanted them to make? You quoted me like you thought I made it up or something, which is why I called you a "retard," well actually mainly asked if you were one. How could you pay full attention to the film, and then say something like: "Right at the begging of the film it's obvious what is going to happen at the end?" They tell you what will happen at the end right at the beginning, in fact show you. How were you not engaged in the film? There is no way a person could think too much of this film, since it goes beyond all thought. What do you want me to answer? They don't think they need the aunt; he is a kid and thinks he can get by on his own without the aunt, which is why they don't return to her. I think, no, I know, you would like the animation, the little details of the characters, all the little things they do that feel so human and realistic. You would also love the shots; they are beautifully and artistically done. Not to mention the score. Like I already said, he thinks he can get by without the aunt, and if you remember the film correctly she already had the rash when they were still with the aunt, and even went to the fucking doctor who was no help. He tried all he could, he did what HE thought was best, not what YOU wanted him to do. He even listened to the doctor and got her food, but he was just too late. (Oh Christ, this is no lie I seriously am tearing up thinking about it now.) Watch the Ebert interview, he will help you appreciate the film more as well.

[blackmoses]

The animation was fine. I said that the film didn't stun me with its visuals. I don't like the choices they make. I don't see how everything they do is as realistic as you claim it to be. I just don't see why they do what they do when their is so many other simple easy to do choices that will save their lives. I also think the girl seemed to be able to comprehend way too much. You are thinking for the kid. You are just making up stuff that he never actually says. I don't like the little details of the characters, all the little things they do that you think feel so human and realistic. I don't like any of that stuff. therefore I don't like the film. I respect the fact that you like the movie, and I don't have anything against you liking it. This film is just not my cup of tea. I just can't see how HE would think getting himself and his sister killed is a better choice then staying with his aunt. Unless you can explain this to me I will not like the film.

[PTAhole]

All I have to say is that if Joel feels nothing for those two characters, he has no soul.

[ie]

blackmoses said:

I don't like the little details of the characters, all the little things they do that you think feel so human and realistic. I don't like any of that stuff. therefore I don't like the film.

I don't need to post my comment on this. Just read it aloud once or twice and you'll eventually piece together what I would have said.


As for the whole bit about why they move out of the aunt's house, let's look at it like this...

Seita and Setsuko just lost everything. They move in with their aunt, and naturally as kids, they think that if my school burns down, I'm off the hook.

Their aunt isn't an evil or angry person, she just sees Seita (mainly) as an abled-bodied person that's just sitting around doing nothing. You may not have experienced this yet, but you'll get to a point where your parents won't let you just bum around for a summer - you either go to school or work.

Seita and Setsuko leave because Seita doesn't want to deal with this, and he thinks that he can make it out on his own just fine. Seita had every intention of living, he wasn't this suicidal emo dipshit or something.

SPOILER: Click to show

And things were going fine, for the most part. Then Setsuko got sick and died, and even though Seita was able to get a good amount of money, he spent it all (or enough of it) to give Setsuko a proper funeral. This left him without any options, and he eventually died. None of this was planned, Seita had good intentions but he simply made some wrong decisions.


This explanation would make more sense in the context of a gangster movie...

Seito had some shit happen to him, he became broke, borrowed money from the mafia, lost it, so he had to go up against the mafia single-handedly, because the mafia just killed his last remaining relative, and he wound up on the wrong side of a bullet.

But instead of ending on that note, Grave of the Firefly Mafia aired out all of that emotional death stuff in the beginning, so that the ending might have some glimmer of happiness not often seen in war movies. Oh wait, I meant gangster movies.

And that would be my attempt at trying to help you understand the movie.

[blackmoses]

I suppose that helped somewhat, but I am still not a fan of this film. I will give it a re-watch sometime though.

[criterionmaster]

I was going to add something but ie said enough. All I got to say is, when you re-watch the film, do it with me, so I can see your reactions to the film because there is no way you couldn't like this film. For some reason all you say about not liking the movie is that you don't like characters choices, well they are CHARACTERS. I could say the same stuff to you about one of your favorite films, Midnight Cowboy, or MANY other films.

SPOILER: Click to show

Jon Voight should have just taken Dustin Hoffman to the hospital and he would have lived. It's the same fucking scenario and yet you love one film and don't love the other. It is fucking ridiculous reasoning.

Like I said, I know you will like it the second time.

[blackmoses]

It isn't the same at all, but I don't want to talk about Midnight Cowboy in this thread.

Anyway, I will not like it the second time.

[sacrilegend]

I haven't seen this movie... I'd like to, though. I'm getting over my fear of anime, slowly but surely.

[Clark Nova]

sacrilegend said:

I haven't seen this movie... I'd like to, though. I'm getting over my fear of anime, slowly but surely.

same here...to think that at one point in high school i watched that mindless drivel known as dragonball z...then it was cowboy bebop, which i also got over...as far as i'm concerned, the only anime worth watching is Akira...sure, the plot gets unbelievably stupid and outlandish as it goes on (same as just about any anime), but the look of it, especially for an 80s movie, is just stunning.

but i'm willing to give grave of the fireflies a try, i think...seems different from the other mindless anime where a wide-eyed boy and a monster have a 30-minute long screaming match. this one, from what i've read, actually seems - *gasp* - like an introspective character study... a feat i didn't think was possible for an anime. hell, if Roger Ebert listed it as one of his "Great Movies," it must be worth checking out.

[ie]

Clark Nova, your post caused a kitten to feel unhappy. Every sentence of it.

[Clark Nova]

good, i love upsetting kittens ;D. i'm much more of a dog person, anyway...got 3 of 'em . but the truth can be quite upsetting (especially to anime fans), but it's still the truth, and it must be revealed.

mwahahaha

[ie]

No, it's just what you said was so blatently wrong that it was just depressing.

Mainly, "other mindless anime where a wide-eyed boy and a monster have a 30-minute long screaming match." That statement is ruled out by the very same three examples you named above it: DBZ, Cowboy Bebop and Akira.

None of which are mindless AND feature wide-eyed boys AND feature a monster AND feature that monster screaming for thirty minutes.


Overall, nice try, but don't inaccurately generalize and then shit around, if you don't completely know what you're talking about. I don't really care if you don't like anime that much, and you know that while I enjoy some anime I am not an obsessive freak or anything like that (I just don't like to hear blatently wrong things, and you understand this), but what you said was just so bad that it actually made that old man go :(. How could you live with that?

[Clark Nova]

ie said:

That statement is ruled out by the very same three examples you named above it: DBZ, Cowboy Bebop and Akira.

...which might be why those 3 examples are pretty much the only ones I ever got into...i'll admit that akira and bebop kinda break the mold, but not DBZ. and don't accuse me of not knowing what i'm talking about, 'cuz I at least think I do...i remember about a 10-15 episode stretch of DBZ where it was literally nothing but Goku and Cell staring at each other on opposite sides of an arena, taunting each other and not fighting...probably the most pointless stretch of television i've ever seen. and notice i actually remember what was going on and who the characters are, so yes, i at least have some knowledge of what's going on...and it's an opinion i was typing...never did i decree it as fact, so don't go making your own decree that it's "so wrong it's depressing." I have my opinion, you have yours, and everybody has their own separate opinions, so i'll leave it at that.

[nonfiction]

police386 said:

ie said:

That statement is ruled out by the very same three examples you named above it: DBZ, Cowboy Bebop and Akira.

...which might be why those 3 examples are pretty much the only ones I ever got into...i'll admit that akira and bebop kinda break the mold, but not DBZ. and don't accuse me of not knowing what i'm talking about, 'cuz I at least think I do...i remember about a 10-15 episode stretch of DBZ where it was literally nothing but Goku and Cell staring at each other on opposite sides of an arena, taunting each other and not fighting...probably the most pointless stretch of television i've ever seen. and notice i actually remember what was going on and who the characters are, so yes, i at least have some knowledge of what's going on...and it's an opinion i was typing...never did i decree it as fact, so don't go making your own decree that it's "so wrong it's depressing." I have my opinion, you have yours, and everybody has their own separate opinions, so i'll leave it at that.

The best anime series is Kino's Journey. Check it out.

[ie]

That really wasn't the re-enforcing statement, meant to make Clark Nova realize that 5% is not 95%, but, um... thanks anyways.