Park Chan Wook

[mixed]

One of the most exciting filmmakers working right now. Oldboy is a masterpiece and I cannot fault it.

[agentknight]

Yeah, Oldboy is a masterpiece. My favourite critic, Daniel Wilks, has said that Sympathy For Lady Vengeance is the best of the "trilogy" so I'll have to get that soon.

[mixed]

Yes I've heard varied opinions on lady vengeance. Some say its the best and others the wrost, we'll see...

[satantangofan]

Lady Vengeance is sublime. A real slow burner with a heart stopping denouement. I bought the region 3 DVD a while ago. I actually like Oldboy & Mr Vengeance equally. JSA is also excellent. A great film-maker

[ie]

I will share my opinions on Park Chanwook. That's how his name is spelled on my Sympathy for Mr. Vengenace poster (from the Oldboy DVD), so, that's how I'm going to spell it.


Sympathy for Mr. Vengance

My favorite of his movies. I feel it has something very strong to say, and says it with such force that it is simply impossible for me not to get behind it.


Joint Security Area

I never really understood the conflict between North and South Korea until I saw this movie. I thought it also had a great message to tell, and I thought it was well done.


Oldboy

Of course, ranking Oldboy third is going to make it sound like "oh, you're elitist and listing his earlier movies first because you want to show how cool you are." Nah, I found out Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance was showing on the Sundance channel and because of its awesomeness, went out and bought Oldboy.

Oldboy is a good movie, with a great plot. I just didn't like all the weird shit in it, you know? So it had some slight faults, but it was overall a solid movie.



I was excited when I found out Lady Vengeance is getting a US release, but I've also been cutting back on my DVD purchases, so it may take a little while before I watch it. (Unless I sneak attack someone from the library. )

[agentknight]

I saw Sympathy For Lady Vengeance and I really hated it. Mindless, souless violence with moronic cinematography. It also lessened my appreciation for Oldboy. Don't let me discourage you, though, watch it and make your own opinion.

[slapshot63]

All I've seen of his is Cut from 3...Extremes and it impressed the hell out of me. I am looking forward to picking up the Oldboy 3 Disc set and his other entries in the "revenge" trilogy (or whatever it is )

[ie]

agentknight, I'd seriously like to hear what you about Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. You need to see it before dismissing Oldboy or Park Chanwook in general.

Why?

Because while there is plenty of the old ultraviolence, it is far from souless. Park Chanwook set out on a mission (from God?) to prove something ((while Oldboy was less about revenge, and while I have yet to see Lady Vengeance (I will soon, it just came out on DVD) )) and he seriously said all he needed to say about revenge in Symapthy for Mr. Vengeance.

It's also one of the most artistic movies I've seen. (Of course, I just know there's one scene you won't like, because it isn't in the movie. That's because it isn't important, but still people need to have that scene in there!, for some reason. You'll know what I'm talking about after you watch it.)


Of course, you won't take my word for it, so go read up a little bit on it. Finally, don't let one movie spoil your opinions of another. While it's good to compare movies, each movie should stand on its own (unless in a series, you know). Oldboy is not like Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, and is probably different than Lady Vengeance.

[agentknight]

I'm definitely going to see Mr. Vengeance, no doubt, and I'll post my thoughts. You probably will like Lady Vengeance if you dug Oldboy, but the violence and the absurd cinematography (probably the thing I hate most about asian films in general) were far too distracting for me to really get involved.

As a side note: When I form an opinion on a film, one of the main things I take into consideration is how it stands up against a director's other works. Sorry, I can't help it, that's just the way my mind works. It seems to be like this for a lot of proffesional film critics also, just consider the way they take Woody Allen for granted. If none of Woody's previous films existed and he suddenly released, say, Deconstructing Harry it would be hailed as a masterpiece. But no, Woody is EXPECTED to pump out another deeply personal yet very hilarious film year after year.

[nonfiction]

Absurd cinematography in asian films in general? WTF?

[ie]

Well, I'll definitely have to see Lady Vengeance then and either quietly agree with you or call you out on the "absurd cinematography." That just sounds rather elitist to me. I mean, could you at least give an example? Perhaps a non-spoilerish one would be best.

Well, when it comes to movies by directors, if one or two were decent, I probably won't expect the others to be masterpieces. But I mean, to downgrade one movie because you didn't like another seems really odd to me.

[agentknight]

It's hard to think of particular examples, because I don't usually tend to pay much attention to it, but with Asian films in general I find the cinematography to be unnecessarily overstylised. It's almost as if they're trying to prove that they can make films that look "cooler" than films from any other continent. To give you an example of cinematography I like, I really dig Krzysztof Kieslowski. He doesn't wank it up with bizzare color schemes, nor does he wiggle the camera around in a sub-Scorcese frenzy, and most importantly, it does not have that annoying, smeary HD-ish sheen to it. He doesn't leave his camera just sitting there, but he doesn't move it around too much either. He just picks one or more good angles and films the scene. He seems to realise that its actually possible to tell a story without completely overdoing the angles and movement. I think the reason why budding film fans tend to dig Asian films is because their style is self-conciously cool, something that just doesn't appeal to me.

Of course, above all, this is all subjective, and you might entirely disagree. It's been fun chatting about this, though.

[ie]

Oh, well, Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance has some bizzare color schemes. But, I do think it's a really artistic movie, I really do.

But, for the record, I do like stylish movies when they're done well. Not style over substance, but if there's substance to a stylish movie, what's not to get behind?

[ie]

Yodel, I just a little heads up on Park Chan-wook's name. I have a friend who's fluent in Korean, and he says it really doesn't matter specifically if it's "Chan Wook Park," "Chan Wookpark," "Park Chanwook," (which has been my favorite for a while) "Park-Chan-wook," "Park Chan-ook."

The most accurate translation would be Bak-Chan-ook. Although "bak is commonly said as park" and the same with ook being said as wook, so Park Chan-wook is reasonable.

He did say that in English, it doesn't matter about whether the given name "Chan Wook" or the family name "Park" is first, but in Korean, structurally, Park would be first.


If I were a moderator on this forum (which is odd, I'm used to being one; oh well), I'd change it, but since I'm not, I'm just putting in the suggestion that I think the topic should be be renamed to the more accepted Park Chan-wook.

Last name first, name split up into three parts, et cetera. As it is, however, "Chan Wook Park" is not wrong, so we're good. We're good, no one's on fire. Just a suggestion, I suppose.

[mixed]

Hmm, thats good of you to clear it up. I wasn't toally sure but am now warming to the idea that some of these names are said backwards
I'm kind of on the fence as far as cinematography in these films go. I agree with agentknight in that its all style style style but I feel that this is just innovation. Park is just trying different angles and juxtaposition which appear garish and out of rhythm with more conventional shot compositions. Its like a lot of the films people made in my class last year, you get a regular, conventional, l/s m/s etc and then your hit with an extreme c/u. Its just not very rhythmic and thats why it can appear stupid because its so irregular in most films. Its an unsafe an diverse way to shoot, it isn't always successful but when it works it can be very visually pleasing.

Moreover, I think there maybe is an almost childishness to the way Mr Vengeance for example is shot. We'll take the shot under the water, where the camera is under the water and tilted up towards the main character, who throws a cigarette into the water, right where the camera is. I think this shot is really cool but its also a bit experimental and maybe a little immature. I doubt you'd ever see a shot like this in a scorsese or Allen film for example. I hope you guys know what I mean when I say this.

Though when the shots work, they are eye meltingly beautiful! Such as scenes in Mr Vengeance where there is a POV shot of the man who has just been run over, the camera tilted up, with the sun flickering between the characters looking down, the red balloons are blowing in the wind and it all just looks so goregous. Then there is the shot where a bookcase or something is in the middle of the shot and the chaarcters are split. The woman is smoking and we just see the smoke until the shot cuts. Its great and I think very avant garde.

[ie]

Well, it's not really backwards; that wouldn't really be the right way of putting it. It's more of a cultural thing. In Asian cultures, there is more of a focus on the family, thus why the family name is first. But in, I'll generalize here, non-Asian cultures, there's more of a focus on the individual, which is why the given name is first. (I have some interest in different cultures, thus why I know this.)

Anyways, we're still good, we're still good. No one's on fire.


My order of Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance finally came in a few days ago, so when I watch it again, I'll keep in mind the scenes you brought up.

Although, overall, I can set aside cheesy camerawork if the movie tells a good enough story. With Sympathy for Mr. Vengenceance, we just happen to get such a work.

[criterionmaster]

www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/oldboy2.html

[ie]

Better yet: $28.




Good movie, but I mean, wow. Three discs? Isn't that excessive?

[PTAhole]

If a 27,000 dollar independent movie about sucking dick can get a three disc release, I'm sure Oldboy can.

[mixed]

Heh err I can only assume your talking about the brown bunny but I'm probably wrong...

[PTAhole]

Nah. Clerks. Not about sucking dick, but it's a main topic of conversation.

[ie]

Well, if Oldboy sells well, then hopefully other Park Chan-wook movies can also get sweet releases.


Oldboy is a good movie, like I said, but one problem about it (not the movie itself) is that most people just seem to stop at Oldboy. They don't check out any of Park Chan-wook's earlier work - sure, they check out Lady Vengeance, but that's just because it's new so it gets advertisement - nor do they bother checking out any other Korean movies.

A bit of generalizing there, so you'd have to forgive me for that, but you understand what I'm essentially trying to say, right?

With music: a band has a hit single, but no one wants to check out any of their other work, which could even be better than that one hit single. Yeah, something like that.

[mixed]

I totally get you. But I think oldboy is his best. Mr Vengeance lacks something and is a little long I feel. JSA is good but gets a little convoluted, perhaps I need a rewatch, As for Lady Vengeance I just didn't enjoy it so much, the main character wasn't as good and it was basically an altered rerun of oldboy with a female lead.

[kiddo]

ptahole said:

Nah. Clerks. Not about sucking dick, but it's a main topic of conversation.

Haha. I tought you were talking about Deep Throuth!

[criterionmaster]

23rd October

The Vengeance Trilogy Region 2

Park Chan-Wook has found international acclaim for his stylish tales of dark justice. Having proved himself a master storyteller, his reputation has grown with each subsequent film. Now Tartan is bringing his cult trio together in one deluxe boxset. Sympathy for Mr Vengeance; Oldboy; and Lady Vengeance all get special double disc treatments. Sympathy has two hours of extra material, whilst Oldboy has a new commentary by Ain’t it Cool’s Harry Knowles and an English dubbed version. Lady Vengeance not only includes additional commentaries and deleted scenes, but also the Fade-to-Black-and-White HD feature, exclusive to the boxset! (RRP £49.99)

A numbered deluxe edition will also be available in a special box designed after the Oldboy box, with added Vengeance-themed gifts including a hammer/bottleopener! (RRP £69.99)

View the pretty cool set here.

[ie]

Holy. Fucking. Yes.


Too bad I bought both Oldboy and Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance already. And too bad I don't buy non-Region 1 DVDs, yet. However, if this were to get a Region 1 release, and weren't really expensive, I'd buy them.


But still, good to hear. And, I still need to get my Sympathy for Mr. Vengenace on.

[agentknight]

Holy FUCK! His new movie looks amazing!

www.imdb.com/title/tt0497137/

[Clark Nova]

agentknight said:

Holy FUCK! His new movie looks amazing!

www.imdb.com/title/tt0497137/

omfg, i MUST see this. you all don't understand...this is, like, a matter of life and death. this just sounds...unbelievable

[kiddo]

Eh, It looked decent, but, uh, nothing more really. Hmm...

[Clark Nova]

haha, yeah, i gotta agree. it was the drink that made me go off like that last night ;D