Determining Favorite Films

[lordofdance]

In my opinion, favorite films should be entirely personal. Certain films seem to appear on people's Top 100 lists far too frequently. For example, The Godfather is widely regarded as an important film, but I find it hard to be believe that so many people really would rank it highly on a list of personal favorites. I like The Godfather, but I realized some time ago that it doesn't really fit into the category of personal favorite. It doesn't speak to me, even though it entertains me.

There are well known films in every genre that often pop up on favorites lists, from The Matrix to The Shawshank Redemption to Citizen Kane, and I do believe that there are people who genuinely love these films. However, when a person's entire list is populated with those types of films, I start to wonder if the person needs to start watching more movies. I know that in many cases there are other movies out there that represent the individual's tastes much better.

There are two things that hinder creating a truly personal favorites list, and those are #1 Limiting one's self to only Great Movies and #2 Not being open to exploration outside a certain comfort zone. Those who follow #1 focus on only liking movies that are held in high regard by critics and film snobs. Critics and film snobs generally restrict themselves to certain types of "acceptable" movies, so only using them as a gauge of what a good film is will limit a person's ability to discover his or her own personal tastes. Those who follow #2 restrict themselves to types of films that are familiar and fail to explore the wide range of films available to them. There's nothing wrong with having preferences, but one shouldn't to flat out refuse to try anything new.

I used to be guilty of both of these to some extent, but have since moved on. I don't expect casual film watchers to put much thought into creating a personal favorites list, but anyone who considers his or herself a serious film lover should. I know this guy who claims that he's a real film buff, but he's full of shit. He was looking at my Top 100 list and started asking me why all these movies that were made in the last 5 years weren't on it. He almost sounded contemptuous, as though every movie made before 2000 wasn't even worthy of consideration. If he was a real film buff, he would have understood.

[ie]

That's in part why I try to watch everything I can get a hold of, although this tends to result in me not having seen a lot of the classics, because it was easier for me to get a hold of something else.

Your friend doesn't seem like that much of a friend.
(In part because if he could be so full of shit in one category, like movies, then it is likely that he will be full of shit in other categories.)


My Top 20, specifically, has movies that I was really impressed with. In other words, I like watching movies, but most of them don't really have much of an impact on me. Sure, some have great scenes and I like being transported elsewhere, and perhaps even pick up on some culture along the way, but I'm not as enthusiastic about movies as most of the people around here are.

So when I see a movie that really had an impact on me, and seems like a very well-made movie, I consider it for my Top 20, which is around the only area where I give 10/10s to. There are exceptions, though, like I really enjoy some movies but they may not make the 10/10 cut, but it happens.


Speaking of the Godfather, I really enjoy Mario Puzo's book, and so for a while there I was really enthusiastic about the movie. So I go to watch it, and about one hour in, I'm bored as hell by it. Here's this book that, even before becoming a "movie buff," I thought "this would make a perfect movie!" From the first paragraph, no less. Then when I go to watch this movie, it doesn't have the same impact. I go to watch it a second time, and I get a little bit further before losing interest again. What's with that? With the novel, one day I was at the library killing time when I found a copy of the Godfather laying around, so I picked it up close to the part where Michael leaves the country, and about ten or fifteen minutes later was still engrossed.

But, to address why popular movies always make the cut, I think it's in part because some of those movies can be truly enjoyable to some people. It has a special place in their heart, and a lot of people like it, so they're frequently reminded of that feeling, so they rate it highly.

[lordofdance]

Your friend doesn't seem like that much of a friend.
(In part because if he could be so full of shit in one category, like movies, then it is likely that he will be full of shit in other categories.)

He's not a friend, just some jackass I know who made a comment that annoyed me. What makes someone a film buff? I think watching movies made before 2000 is at least a minor requirement.

My Top 20, specifically, has movies that I was really impressed with. In other words, I like watching movies, but most of them don't really have much of an impact on me. Sure, some have great scenes and I like being transported elsewhere, and perhaps even pick up on some culture along the way, but I'm not as enthusiastic about movies as most of the people around here are.
So when I see a movie that really had an impact on me, and seems like a very well-made movie, I consider it for my Top 20, which is around the only area where I give 10/10s to. There are exceptions, though, like I really enjoy some movies but they may not make the 10/10 cut, but it happens.

I pretty much look at it that way as well. When that rare film comes along that makes a unique impression, I feel great happiness. The rest of them just pass the time. Now, I could just adopt a bunch of highly regarded films as favorites, but I like the feeling of discovering a film that truly gets the job done on a personal level. Even if I have to watch 500 to do it. Every film that I consider a favorite is one that affected me in a personal way that can't easily be duplicated by just any film.

Speaking of the Godfather, I really enjoy Mario Puzo's book, and so for a while there I was really enthusiastic about the movie. So I go to watch it, and about one hour in, I'm bored as hell by it. Here's this book that, even before becoming a "movie buff," I thought "this would make a perfect movie!" From the first paragraph, no less. Then when I go to watch this movie, it doesn't have the same impact. I go to watch it a second time, and I get a little bit further before losing interest again. What's with that? With the novel, one day I was at the library killing time when I found a copy of the Godfather laying around, so I picked it up close to the part where Michael leaves the country, and about ten or fifteen minutes later was still engrossed.

But, to address why popular movies always make the cut, I think it's in part because some of those movies can be truly enjoyable to some people. It has a special place in their heart, and a lot of people like it, so they're frequently reminded of that feeling, so they rate it highly.

Sounds like you experienced "The Book Was Better-itis." Reading the book kills a movie for me. This may not be a good example, but I read Memoirs of a Geisha and found it at least a little interesting and entertaining. When I heard the film was coming out, I admit being excited (though skeptical). Not surprisingly, I hated the movie. All I could do was compare it to the book. The book has alot more detail about Geisha life than the movie does, which made the book far more enjoyable. The movie was an empty shell by comparison.

Anyway, I'm not saying that it's wrong to like popular films. I can understand the psychological satisfaction of loving a movie that is loved by so many. It's like being part of a club, perhaps. But the journey of a true "film buff" is a lonely one. There comes a time when the old comfortable standards must be left behind for new and personally fulfilling territory. Maybe a few standards will remain, but there is so much more to see...

[ie]

I agree with everything you wrote, and don't have much to comment, but wanted to add this:


Speaking of "The Book Was Better-itis," I saw Full Metal Jacket a little while ago, and I just couldn't help but feeling it was really empty. (Even though I think it is overrated, surprisingly, I didn't hate it! Stop the presses, stop the mother fucking presses! Kubrick actually doesn't hate me! He just casually disregards everything except making a movie that looks good.)

I thought about this empty feeling for quite some time, and after reading through the plot summary of the novel it was based off of, which I have not read and most likely won't for quite some time, and I came to the conclusion that...

The Book Might Be Better.

SPOILER: Click to show

How's that for a curveball? Well, for example, drill instructor Gerheim/Hartman apparently gets the line "Private Pyle, I'm proud--" in before he dies. That would have been awesome in the movie. In the movie, he just kind of falls over with a squib on his shirt kind of thing.

[criterionmaster]

lordofdance said:

In my opinion, favorite films should be entirely personal. Certain films seem to appear on people's Top 100 lists far too frequently. For example, The Godfather is widely regarded as an important film, but I find it hard to be believe that so many people really would rank it highly on a list of personal favorites. I like The Godfather, but I realized some time ago that it doesn't really fit into the category of personal favorite. It doesn't speak to me, even though it entertains me.

There are well known films in every genre that often pop up on favorites lists, from The Matrix to The Shawshank Redemption to Citizen Kane, and I do believe that there are people who genuinely love these films. However, when a person's entire list is populated with those types of films, I start to wonder if the person needs to start watching more movies. I know that in many cases there are other movies out there that represent the individual's tastes much better.

There are two things that hinder creating a truly personal favorites list, and those are #1 Limiting one's self to only Great Movies and #2 Not being open to exploration outside a certain comfort zone. Those who follow #1 focus on only liking movies that are held in high regard by critics and film snobs. Critics and film snobs generally restrict themselves to certain types of "acceptable" movies, so only using them as a gauge of what a good film is will limit a person's ability to discover his or her own personal tastes. Those who follow #2 restrict themselves to types of films that are familiar and fail to explore the wide range of films available to them. There's nothing wrong with having preferences, but one shouldn't to flat out refuse to try anything new.

I used to be guilty of both of these to some extent, but have since moved on. I don't expect casual film watchers to put much thought into creating a personal favorites list, but anyone who considers his or herself a serious film lover should. I know this guy who claims that he's a real film buff, but he's full of shit. He was looking at my Top 100 list and started asking me why all these movies that were made in the last 5 years weren't on it. He almost sounded contemptuous, as though every movie made before 2000 wasn't even worthy of consideration. If he was a real film buff, he would have understood.

Interesting topic. I, too, feel that a person’s list should be totally personal to that person. When I see: 1. Godfather, 2. Citizen Kane, 3. Good, the Bad, the Ugly, and so on, it makes me think more that the person was following a list of 'best' films ever made, and not really deciding what they actually want to watch. I think when people sees a film that is suppose to be good, they feel obligated to like it sometimes, like many fake '10/10' grades for films I can tell they didn't connect with, or enjoy that much. But like you said, there are people who do like those films as there favorites, it is hard to tell.

I think it is a great thing, if you are beginning, to start with a list and trying to see all the films on that list, but to only see those films is what angers me. It is like trying to collect [see] 'em all, or something, like seeing these films on someone else’s list is the ends all of great films.

To me, when I watch films and determine favorites, it is the films that connect with me, as well as entertain me. I also like when a film makes me feel a different way, and sometimes I find myself liking films that are so deep that I can't express in words what I truly want to say about the film. The movie doesn't have to be perfect, hell, most of the time I don't even look at technical quality of a film.

You really nailed one of the MAIN things that irritates me the fucking most, when someone won't watch a certain kind of film. Whether it be anime, foreign films, gore films, exploitation films, anything. It is so stupid to deny yourself a new experience and seeing something different. It is like they have some pre-conceived notion that because it is some type of film, that means it is bad, no matter what the actual film is about. I will NEVER deny myself a new experience, especially for stupid/no reasons.

Then you mention another thing that bothers the fuck out of me, people who watch only new films. It is so limiting. Hell, some older films pushed the boundaries more than any new film today can. I mean, just like last year I didn't have a single film made in the past 10 years in my top 20 (now I have a few more, but only because those speak to me, not because they are new).

So for me, my list is just a bunch of films I truly feel something for, sometimes it can't be explained, others times it is easy to explain. I just love film, doesn't matter what kinds. I try to have a good list, which defines my taste in film, and me as a person.

[sacrilegend]

When a film makes me feel differently after I've watched it, and it changes my outlook and I think with new eyes, it's on there. Some others are also on there that I can just rely on for a good time, even if they didn't touch me. I call it my "defense" category. The others that make me want to take life by te horns and change the world are called my "attack" films. I'm trying to become less scared, so I'm phazing out the former film by film.

[captainofbeef]

I have sort of a muddled definition of the way I determine favorite films. They must connect with me in some way that goes beyond just the average ten out of ten movie. They don't have to be really deep and depressing films, they can be entertaining, as long as they have some substance to them. Another one of the important factors in determining a favorite film is whether I want to watch that film again. For example, Babel, excellent film, ten out of ten, would I watch it again? Sure, but do I want to watch it again. Not necessarily.

I do have movies on my list that some would consider classics, in fact some consider my favorite movie to be a classic. But that is because it touched me in some way and in the case of TGBU, it made me seek out better films in the future. I think people have to remember that these films are classics for a reason. They may be cliche but they obviously have great artistical merit to be classified in such a high category.

[kiddo]

"But the journey of a true "film buff" is a lonely one." - Lordofdance.

Nice.

I tend to seek films that drill a hole in my heart and/or fill it up with it different ideas, thoughts, reflections etc. This may seem clichè, but really; I want films to kind of punch me in the stomach or head.

When I watch a film, I use myself to a high degree. To dig out aspects that for others may be totally irrelevant or invisible, is a vital part of how I look at films. Of course, I look closely at the teqnical aspect of the film, but when a film works as well as it does when it's one of my true favorites, the teqnical and thematical part tend to melt together in this very tasteful stewpan.

[lordofdance]

Interesting topic. I, too, feel that a person’s list should be totally personal to that person. When I see: 1. Godfather, 2. Citizen Kane, 3. Good, the Bad, the Ugly, and so on, it makes me think more that the person was following a list of 'best' films ever made, and not really deciding what they actually want to watch. I think when people sees a film that is suppose to be good, they feel obligated to like it sometimes, like many fake '10/10' grades for films I can tell they didn't connect with, or enjoy that much. But like you said, there are people who do like those films as there favorites, it is hard to tell.

When it comes to well known, classic films that are favorites, I think it depends on how the person discovers them. In the case of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, which has been a favorite of mine for years, I just happened to see it on television one day without knowing anything about it. The memory of seeing it stuck with me for a long time, and I eventually realized just how strong an imapact it had on me. Not only did it inspire me to explore the Western genre, it still provides me with that "tingly" sensation. Part of it is my nostalgia for the first time I watched it and how much fun the experience was, but the characters almost seem like old friends now. I still care about what happens to them everytime I watch it.

I think it is a great thing, if you are beginning, to start with a list and trying to see all the films on that list, but to only see those films is what angers me. It is like trying to collect [see] 'em all, or something, like seeing these films on someone else’s list is the ends all of great films.

To me, when I watch films and determine favorites, it is the films that connect with me, as well as entertain me. I also like when a film makes me feel a different way, and sometimes I find myself liking films that are so deep that I can't express in words what I truly want to say about the film. The movie doesn't have to be perfect, hell, most of the time I don't even look at technical quality of a film.

It's like thae saying "You have to know the rules before you can break them." Watching all the Great Films will at least give a person a sense of what a quality film is supposed to be like. The person can then make an informed decision whether or not they agree what a Great Film is. If some films off the Greats list appeal to someone on a personal level, they may adopt those as favorites. There's nothing wrong with that, but no one should have a "I'll take 'em all!" mentality. It's like going to a fancy restaurant and ordering everything on the menu. If you don't really like the taste of caviar, why in the hell should you eat it? Just so you can look refined?

You really nailed one of the MAIN things that irritates me the fucking most, when someone won't watch a certain kind of film. Whether it be anime, foreign films, gore films, exploitation films, anything. It is so stupid to deny yourself a new experience and seeing something different. It is like they have some pre-conceived notion that because it is some type of film, that means it is bad, no matter what the actual film is about. I will NEVER deny myself a new experience, especially for stupid/no reasons.

Then you mention another thing that bothers the fuck out of me, people who watch only new films. It is so limiting. Hell, some older films pushed the boundaries more than any new film today can. I mean, just like last year I didn't have a single film made in the past 10 years in my top 20 (now I have a few more, but only because those speak to me, not because they are new).

I don't think anyone should force themselves to like certain types of movies, but they should have an open mind. In my case, I don't like silent slapstick or romantic comedies. I have a difficult time getting into those types of films. There may be some out there that will become a favorite, but I'm not going to purposely look for them. Slogging through a genre that doesn't appeal to you just to find a movie you like isn't productive. But I'm always open to the possibility that one exists. There's no telling when one might discover a favorite in an unlikely place.

As for watching only new movies, I can't see much justification in that. I really enjoy films from the 60s and 70s, and there was a time when I would never have thought to watch older films. It's depressing to think what I'd be missing if I hadn't taken that leap. I guess I can thank Scorsese and Leone and Godard and the Exploitation genre for that, among others.

When a film makes me feel differently after I've watched it, and it changes my outlook and I think with new eyes, it's on there. Some others are also on there that I can just rely on for a good time, even if they didn't touch me. I call it my "defense" category. The others that make me want to take life by te horns and change the world are called my "attack" films. I'm trying to become less scared, so I'm phazing out the former film by film.

That's an interesting way to categorize films. My true favorites have to be able to remind me just how much I enjoy watching movies. Everytime I sit down and watch a film off my favorites list, I think to myself "Yes, this is how I like to feel when I see a movie! This is what it's all about!" Any movie that can do that goes on my favorites list. Most of my favorite films are a combination of "attack" and "defense". They have to work on an entertainment level and an inspirational level. Of course, my definition of inspiration isn't the same as yours, or many other people's, I would imagine. The less "attack" a film has, the less likely it will be a favorite.

I have sort of a muddled definition of the way I determine favorite films. They must connect with me in some way that goes beyond just the average ten out of ten movie. They don't have to be really deep and depressing films, they can be entertaining, as long as they have some substance to them. Another one of the important factors in determining a favorite film is whether I want to watch that film again. For example, Babel, excellent film, ten out of ten, would I watch it again? Sure, but do I want to watch it again. Not necessarily.

I do have movies on my list that some would consider classics, in fact some consider my favorite movie to be a classic. But that is because it touched me in some way and in the case of TGBU, it made me seek out better films in the future. I think people have to remember that these films are classics for a reason. They may be cliche but they obviously have great artistical merit to be classified in such a high category.

A favorite film has to have enormous replay value. I can't rate any movie highly if I don't want to watch it over and over again. For me, there is no such thing as a 10/10 movie that I don't want to ever watch again. I pretty much have to connect with a film for it to be a favorite. I doubt that I would want to rewatch a film that I don't connect with in some way.

I do agree that the classics have merit, but it's important to discover the ones that have personal merit. People need to learn to differentiate instead of getting drunk off the notion of watching Great Films and liking them all the same. There's a sense of euphoria when a person firsts starts seeing the Great Films that can be intoxicating. Eventually, they need to determine the ones that really matter to them.

[PTAhole]

I base it on two factors. How much I enjoy it, and how much it sticks with me. By "sticking with me" I mean if shots, lines, or whatever keep popping into my head, it is added. A movie doesn't need to have deep meaning for me to add it. Look at Army of Darkness (#16), no deep meaning at all, however, I'd rather watch it than most movies. That's pretty much all I need.

[kiddo]

lordofdance:
I agree with much of what you're saying, but disagree on "a favorite film has to have enormous replay value". I also feel different than you towards the thing you say when comparing high scores with replay-value. For example: I remember giving The Deer Hunter a 10/10 (don't know If I'd done it now), but I haven't watched it since my first time, and I do not feel this great urge to do so either. I remember it's great impact on me, and when the end credits rolled over the screen I just didn't find a single thing that I could point out as a weakness...

Another example is Man Bites Dog, which is probably among my top 20 favorites; I don't feel the urge to visit that experience again, but I know that it truly affected me. And for that, I think it's fantastic. When that last shot faded out I just thought "WOW". Still, I do not really want to see the film again for a while (although it's a long time since I saw it).

[lordofdance]

kiddo said:

lordofdance:
I agree with much of what you're saying, but disagree on "a favorite film has to have enormous replay value". I also feel different than you towards the thing you say when comparing high scores with replay-value. For example: I remember giving The Deer Hunter a 10/10 (don't know If I'd done it now), but I haven't watched it since my first time, and I do not feel this great urge to do so either. I remember it's great impact on me, and when the end credits rolled over the screen I just didn't find a single thing that I could point out as a weakness...

Another example is Man Bites Dog, which is probably among my top 20 favorites; I don't feel the urge to visit that experience again, but I know that it truly affected me. And for that, I think it's fantastic. When that last shot faded out I just thought "WOW". Still, I do not really want to see the film again for a while (although it's a long time since I saw it).

I can't declare a film to be a favorite and not want to watch it again. Rewatchability is absolutely essential. For me, the very definition of a favorite film is one which I want to revisit again and again. I understand what you're saying, that impact should count for something, but I need more than just impact. There are movies that have made a strong impact on me, but they lacked something. If I choose a movie to be a favorite, it's going to be a close relationship.

[sacrilegend]

kiddo said:

lordofdance:
I agree with much of what you're saying, but disagree on "a favorite film has to have enormous replay value". I also feel different than you towards the thing you say when comparing high scores with replay-value. For example: I remember giving The Deer Hunter a 10/10 (don't know If I'd done it now), but I haven't watched it since my first time, and I do not feel this great urge to do so either. I remember it's great impact on me, and when the end credits rolled over the screen I just didn't find a single thing that I could point out as a weakness...

Another example is Man Bites Dog, which is probably among my top 20 favorites; I don't feel the urge to visit that experience again, but I know that it truly affected me. And for that, I think it's fantastic. When that last shot faded out I just thought "WOW". Still, I do not really want to see the film again for a while (although it's a long time since I saw it).

I think I'd watch my favourite films again, and again, and again. It's just a chance to fall more in love with them! You figure out more of the reasons you liked them in the first place, or, if they weren't meant to be on your favourites list, you'll find that out as well. Like, I know some of mine have got to go, but I'm just too lazy to edit that list right now...

And I absolutely fell in love with you when I read your comment about films drilling into your heart, etc. etc. Because I know exactly what you mean, and you'd taken all my thoughts and put them in writing.

[ie]

Gotta catch 'em all.


Something that's a little strange for me is that some of the "Great Films" I've seen... haven't really impressed me. For example, Rashomon just doesn't do it for me, even though I can see how grand of an influence it has had.


I'd agree with lordofdance on the bit about the 10/10s. If you give a movie a 10/10, and you don't ever want to watch it again, no, that movie should not get a 10/10. Sure, that means you'd exclude all of the snuff-esque films, but you know, if you're never going to watch it again, truth is, you may have liked it or tolerated it, but you did not care for it, because otherwise you would want to watch it again.

Man Bites Dog was brought up, and it adds another dimension to this. You can respect the movie and like it, but there are at least certain scenes that you'd easily want to revisit. And for any amateur movie director, there's plenty to just kind of appreciate about this movie. So, you may not want to watch the whole thing through and through, but you can at least pick it up and go to the part where they're drunk off their ass singing in the street or something.


Even though I know I shouldn't watch movies in my Top 20 all the time, because I have so many movies from poor to decent to great to get through, that I just don't have the time to rewatch them all the time. But I did this a while ago, I sat down and popped in my favorite movie because shit was just getting really bad, and not only was it reassuring that my favorite movie was still my favorite movie, but it was also an enjoyable experience all over again.

And also, this is how I run my Top 20. I might have said this before, but here's a great time to recap: If you're over at my house, and you're able to watch some movies with me and are interested in seeing movies that I consider the best of the best, the good amongst the decent to shitty, these are the movies I will show you. ...And then there's suppose to be a sign that falls down behind me, with some cheap effects and shit. But the point is there.

Even though that's not fool-proof, the list is still a good example of how much effort I've put into watching a diverse amount of movies, the classics, the modern movies, the Criterions, the not-really-released-heres, the Ah Knee Meh movies and et cetera.

[criterionmaster]

There is so much I need to say in this thread, firstly though, I will say that I really disagree with a film needing to be re-watchable. Not all films need to be fun to watch, not everything in life is fun, but if you are truly moved by a film that is hard to watch, then it is definitely worthy of a ten. I use the example of Woman Under the Influence a lot, but that would count, but I will use a film like Andrei Rublev for this, now that film is full of beauty, but it is long and I wouldn’t probably ever watch it again. But boy is that film perfect, I mean, seriously, if someone can find me a flaw in that film, I would be surprised. It is a perfect film, and was beautiful and a great watch, so a ten/ten it got. And there are many more examples. Not to mention that even if a film is easy to re-watch, we [film buffs] may never get a chance to watch the film again, for various reasons, not being able to find it, or just wanting to watch the millions of other movies you need to see more, but that shouldn’t stop it from getting a ten.

So what I am trying to say is, a great element for a film to have is re-watchability, but a film doesn’t need to have that in order for it to be perfect in someone’s eyes. You see what I mean?

(I will come back a say all the other things I need to say later sometime, but feel free to comment what I just said.)

[kiddo]

I pretty much agree with you, cm. Although I like to rewatch most of my favorites, I don`t agree with it being a decisive aspect. Let us take my favorite film for the moment; The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser. Here is a film I have only seen two times, and I do not feel the urge to watch it again immidiately. Of course I want to seek back to the experience after a while, but the fact that the film live a colourful life inside me between the two hours infront og the screen, makes it so powerful and profound. I have never liked when people say "It`s just a movie". For me, that`s kinda like saying "It`s just a baby, it doesn`t need care".

For me, cinema is something beyond what`s shown on screen, and therefore, a favorite of mine wouldn`t necessarily be a film I would rewatch all the time. Some of my favorite films (I don`t say everyone) has this aspect in them that lets my subjective response live longer than two hours. Do you catch my drift, any of you?

[lordofdance]

kiddo said:

For me, cinema is something beyond what`s shown on screen, and therefore, a favorite of mine wouldn`t necessarily be a film I would rewatch all the time. Some of my favorite films (I don`t say everyone) has this aspect in them that lets my subjective response live longer than two hours. Do you catch my drift, any of you?

That is an intriguing way to look at it, but I guess my relationship with favorite films is more concrete. I do have a subjective response that lasts long after I see a favorite film, but not one that is strong enough to sustain me so I never have to watch it again. The subjective response makes me want to revisit the film. I have all kinds of thoughts about the film that goes beyond just watching it, but I need to rewatch films to confirm those thoughts, I guess.

[sacrilegend]

lordofdance said:

kiddo said:

For me, cinema is something beyond what`s shown on screen, and therefore, a favorite of mine wouldn`t necessarily be a film I would rewatch all the time. Some of my favorite films (I don`t say everyone) has this aspect in them that lets my subjective response live longer than two hours. Do you catch my drift, any of you?

That is an intriguing way to look at it, but I guess my relationship with favorite films is more concrete. I do have a subjective response that lasts long after I see a favorite film, but not one that is strong enough to sustain me so I never have to watch it again. The subjective response makes me want to revisit the film. I have all kinds of thoughts about the film that goes beyond just watching it, but I need to rewatch films to confirm those thoughts, I guess.

Maybe it would be an experience having a favourite film you are in awe of and a bit afraid of? I don't know if that sums up what I meant, but I can't think of how else to. Maybe a film should be watched once and continue to grow inside of your head. For me, some of my favourite movies are only there because of the kinds of thoughts and feelings, and actions, they evoked in me, and it wasn't about the film anymore, but about a completely different mindset. I'd still rewatch, if only to reassess the feelings I felt the first time and to maybe get more out of the film than I could the first time.

OKAY! Arrgghhh... I don't know how to say what I meant in the first place anymore. I'll think about it again and get back to you.

Anyhow, I do agree about rewatchability, I'd rewatch my top ten every day. I'm just trying to explain why I'm not.

[ie]

Having a favorite movie that I'm a bit afraid of watching?

Well, when I said this... "But I did this a while ago, I sat down and popped in my favorite movie because shit was just getting really bad, and not only was it reassuring that my favorite movie was still my favorite movie, but it was also an enjoyable experience all over again." ...I forgot to mention that I went into it with a little bit of fear. I had not seen it in quite a while, and had elevated it on many occasions to that lofty of positions. Was I wrong before? Would I still like it? Well, when I sat down and began to watch it, I was pleased to discover that I was alright.

I'm having those same feelings with the Seven Samurai, the movie that single-handedly made me interested in movies, brought me here, and made your lives a little harder. Before I saw it, movies were alright. I'd watch a movie every once in a while, but I didn't think much about them. No favorites, no rating, just liked it or didn't really like it. So, you know, there's a little bit of trepidation there.

To a lesser degree, I'm having the same thoughts with American Beauty, which I really enjoyed when I first saw it, and the Elephant Man, which was one where I really enjoyed it as a drama (not that I use the word often at all to describe movies), but I need to see it again to see if I feel like there's more to the movie than just being sympathetic toward John Hurt's Joseph Merrick.


Of course, certain movies are best for certain moods, but I still feel that if you never want to rewatch - and by that, I include "revisit," so that includes thinking about the movie again - one of your favorite movies again, then I'm not sure why you'd put such a movie in such a lofty position.

One example I could think of is Salo. I know how it's like, even though I haven't seen it yet (in the library queue, might get around to it this break or might now). I could see how some people might be able to respect it, and list it among some of their favorite movies, but if you never want to watch it again, not even to study the techniques the director used, then why appreciate it so much? Not wanting to watch it... isn't that the same as avoiding it?


Of course, this all could be because of our environments too. Before the VHS/video days, you couldn't easily rewatch a movie. I'm sure all of us have easy access to DVDs now, but maybe some of that "you only get to see it once in the theaters" aspect is still lingering around.


Oh, and it's reasonable to not watch your favorite movies every day. Completely. One just doesn't have the time for it.

[lordofdance]

Maybe it would be an experience having a favourite film you are in awe of and a bit afraid of? I don't know if that sums up what I meant, but I can't think of how else to. Maybe a film should be watched once and continue to grow inside of your head. For me, some of my favourite movies are only there because of the kinds of thoughts and feelings, and actions, they evoked in me, and it wasn't about the film anymore, but about a completely different mindset. I'd still rewatch, if only to reassess the feelings I felt the first time and to maybe get more out of the film than I could the first time.

I don't think any of my favorites fall into the category of "I like it for the feelings the movie evoked that exist independently from the movie itself." You're talking about using the movie as a starting point for feelings and ideas, rather than just a contained area where the same feelings and ideas occur each time you watch it. You don't necessarily need the movie itself anymore because it got your thoughts and feelings rolling and now they have begun a course of their own. Hmmmm. I've read books that cause me to do that, but I don't think that happens with movies. I like to rewatch them for what they are, not so much what they cause me to do after watching them.

Of course, certain movies are best for certain moods, but I still feel that if you never want to rewatch - and by that, I include "revisit," so that includes thinking about the movie again - one of your favorite movies again, then I'm not sure why you'd put such a movie in such a lofty position.

One example I could think of is Salo. I know how it's like, even though I haven't seen it yet (in the library queue, might get around to it this break or might now). I could see how some people might be able to respect it, and list it among some of their favorite movies, but if you never want to watch it again, not even to study the techniques the director used, then why appreciate it so much? Not wanting to watch it... isn't that the same as avoiding it?

Yes, I agree with this. I often wonder if what some people really mean when they say "It's a masterpiece, but I never want to see it again" is that they don't really like the movie, but don't want to go record as saying so. Or, like in the case of a film like Salo, maybe they do want to rewatch it many times but don't feel right about admitting it. There are no films that I look at either way. Hey, if a movie has sick and depraved content but it appeals to me, I'm going to watch it again and claim it as a favorite. If it was brilliantly crafted but bores me out of my soul, I ain't watching it again. I have yet to discover a film that exists only as a starting point for thoughts and feelings that I never need to watch again that I would call a favorite.

[sacrilegend]

lordofdance said:

I don't think any of my favorites fall into the category of "I like it for the feelings the movie evoked that exist independently from the movie itself." You're talking about using the movie as a starting point for feelings and ideas, rather than just a contained area where the same feelings and ideas occur each time you watch it. You don't necessarily need the movie itself anymore because it got your thoughts and feelings rolling and now they have begun a course of their own. Hmmmm. I've read books that cause me to do that, but I don't think that happens with movies. I like to rewatch them for what they are, not so much what they cause me to do after watching them.

I get that.

[kiddo]

ie said:

One example I could think of is Salo. I know how it's like, even though I haven't seen it yet (in the library queue, might get around to it this break or might now). I could see how some people might be able to respect it, and list it among some of their favorite movies, but if you never want to watch it again, not even to study the techniques the director used, then why appreciate it so much? Not wanting to watch it... isn't that the same as avoiding it?

You know, there are certain films you watch, and you'r just blow away. Most often I want to revisit these films, but, you know, it could happen that I wouldn't (at least not look up). For example; Thriller - a curel picture was a very powerful film for me, and I really, really liked it. One of my top 100 favorites, in fact, I think. But it's not a film I really wanna see very soon again. Of course, I'll probably revisit someday, sometime, but it could just be that I never see it again.

I'm not, like, anti-rewatch-favorites or something ( ), but I disagree in what ie says about "why appreciate a film so much when you wouldn't rewatch it".

And lastly; I don't think anybody should open their mouth, talking about Salò, before they have actually watched the movie.

[criterionmaster]

ie said:

Having a favorite movie that I'm a bit afraid of watching?

Well, when I said this... "But I did this a while ago, I sat down and popped in my favorite movie because shit was just getting really bad, and not only was it reassuring that my favorite movie was still my favorite movie, but it was also an enjoyable experience all over again." ...I forgot to mention that I went into it with a little bit of fear. I had not seen it in quite a while, and had elevated it on many occasions to that lofty of positions. Was I wrong before? Would I still like it? Well, when I sat down and began to watch it, I was pleased to discover that I was alright.

I'm having those same feelings with the Seven Samurai, the movie that single-handedly made me interested in movies, brought me here, and made your lives a little harder. Before I saw it, movies were alright. I'd watch a movie every once in a while, but I didn't think much about them. No favorites, no rating, just liked it or didn't really like it. So, you know, there's a little bit of trepidation there.

To a lesser degree, I'm having the same thoughts with American Beauty, which I really enjoyed when I first saw it, and the Elephant Man, which was one where I really enjoyed it as a drama (not that I use the word often at all to describe movies), but I need to see it again to see if I feel like there's more to the movie than just being sympathetic toward John Hurt's Joseph Merrick.


Of course, certain movies are best for certain moods, but I still feel that if you never want to rewatch - and by that, I include "revisit," so that includes thinking about the movie again - one of your favorite movies again, then I'm not sure why you'd put such a movie in such a lofty position.

One example I could think of is Salo. I know how it's like, even though I haven't seen it yet (in the library queue, might get around to it this break or might now). I could see how some people might be able to respect it, and list it among some of their favorite movies, but if you never want to watch it again, not even to study the techniques the director used, then why appreciate it so much? Not wanting to watch it... isn't that the same as avoiding it?


Of course, this all could be because of our environments too. Before the VHS/video days, you couldn't easily rewatch a movie. I'm sure all of us have easy access to DVDs now, but maybe some of that "you only get to see it once in the theaters" aspect is still lingering around.


Oh, and it's reasonable to not watch your favorite movies every day. Completely. One just doesn't have the time for it.

I don't think I do that with favorite films at all, I do do it with films I haven't visited in years, like nostalgic films for me. Like I was scared to watch Field of Dreams again after all these years because the last time I saw the film I was able to just look at it in a fun way, but I knew this time I would have to see the film's flaws and all that, and my fears came true, and I saw it for the decent film it is.

Please do not have those same feelings with Seven Samurai, that film is a fucking masterpiece, and will always be, no matter how much film you see. And plus, if that is the film that got you into better film, it will always hold that spot in your heart, and you will never be able to forget what it did for you, so in that case, it should always be listed among you most favorite films. I don’t like when people forget the way films made them feel originally when watching them, or what they did for your taste in film. That would be like me all of a sudden hating Pulp Fiction because I feel beyond that “kind” of film in some way, based on the films I watch now. It is the film that got me into film, and will always hold a place near my heart. It just angers me when people forget their initial reaction to a film, like re-watching the film 100 times and saying it isn’t good anymore, like just because they are bored with it they act like it isn’t still the masterpiece they once saw or something. I don’t know.

Not wanting to watch the horrible images in Salo is slightly understandable, although I do not feel that way at all. There are films that are hard for me to watch because of subject matter, length, how emotionally draining something is, how un-fun it is to watch, etc. but I don't think I can think of a single film I wouldn't watch again do to how graphic the film is. But that is just me; I think that is just completely different than the other things I listed. That is more like being scared to watch something, than not [/i]wanting[/i] to watch it.

[ie]

I'm not really too worried about the Seven Samurai myself. Just a little worried is all.

Well, the first time through Pulp Fiction, I don't know, I didn't fuckin' love it or anything, but I just liked it a lot. The second time though just kind of bored me. It was still fun and enjoyable, but it just didn't impress me as much. I'm guessing that's because I saw it pretty early on, when I was really just seeing movies that everyone else liked and if I even somewhat liked the movie, I gave it a good rating. But as I went further into this movie culture stuff, I became more picky about what I liked and that didn't go over well with Pulp Fiction.


Also, there is a feeling, for me at least, that I don't need to rewatch most movies immediately after I see them. Even if I really like the movie, I just need to give it time before I rewatch it. For example, I saw 8 1/2 a while back and wasn't impressed with it, so simply rewatching it wouldn't do any good because it'd be just seeing the same stuff with the same interpretations as the same person, but if I come back to it after I've seen other movies like it, I could appreciate it a little bit better, maybe hopefully. Something like that.