Favorite Documentaries?

[ie]

So, what are some of your favorite documentaries?

10/10:
7th Street (2003)

9/10:
Bruce Lee: A Warrior's Journey with clips from Game of Death (2000)
Bus 174 (2002)
Super Size Me (2004), Hamburger America (2004)
Culture Jam: Hijacking Commercial Culture (2001)
Buena Vista Social Club (1999)

8/10:
Warriors of the Net (1999)
An Inconvenient Truth (2006)
Sound?? (1966)
Investigation Into the Invisible World (2002)
Advertising and the End of the World (1998), Slim Hopes (1995)
Missing Allen (2001)
Häxan (1922)
Playing For Change (2003)
Original Child Bomb (2004)
Revolution OS (2001)

(The order for the 8/10 documentaries may be subject to change. I don't know why An Inconvenient Truth is so high as a movie, when it works best as a lecture, and I definitely think Original Child Bomb and Revolution OS are two of the more visually interesting documentaries I've seen, even though I'm not an expert, really.)


Also, I have two friends of mine that both like basketball and both don't post at forums. One has seen Hoop Dreams, and agrees with me that it is a good documentary but just too long, and the other hasn't seen it. I might watch it with my other friend sometime.

And a friend of mine just recommended Dark Days, which looks really interesting to me.

You can either list out some of your favorites, or even just list some that you've heard were pretty good. Or whatever, dance if you want to, just don't leave your friends behind.

[kiddo]

Well, documentaries isn't something I usually search out by myself; I tend to watch some if they're sending something on the tv or something, but I can't say I've seen many (around two-hour long) documentaries that I can really remember the title of right now. But, of course, there's Grizzly Man. But you probably knew about that from before.

Buena Vista Social Club is, I agree, fantastic!

Sorry for my lack of competence on this subject. I'll come back with some better dancing if I find out I've seen some other mention-worthy documentaries...

[sacrilegend]

Buena Vista Social Club was so superbly amazingly good (hhahahahha I watched it before you, Endre!), and also I have some weird under-the-sea fetish, so I like things like Blue Planet, etc.

I hated Supersize Me.

[lordofdance]

Sick: The Life and Death of Bob Flanagan, Supermasochist
Hell's Highway: The True Story of Highway Safety Films

I like Häxan, but it's more of a quasi-documentary, wouldn't you say?

[criterionmaster]

lordofdance said:

Hell's Highway: The True Story of Highway Safety Films

I cannot believe you mentioned that, it has been something I have been dying to see for so long now, ever since I saw the DVD at CD Warehouse and read-up on it, I put it on my queue, but haven't bumped it to the top because it has such a low rating, well pretty low. Glad to know you like it though, the idea sounded so interesting. Do you think I would like it? What is it like?

Now for the topic at hand, some documentaries that you probably all know that I like, and some you may not. You could check out some of the Herzog docs, I watched some of one that was on Google Video, but also Grizzly Man is really a great film. Obviously Titicut Follies, which is the best documentary I have ever seen and is in my top 20. You already know all about that, but it is fucking powerful. Maybe too powerful for your friends, you can decide.

If they like Bob Dylan, or music, then another favorite is No Direction Home. A fantastic talking heads doc. And for another Dylan doc, Don't Look Back, you don't even have to like Dylan in order to enjoy that. He is such an interesting character and it is an amazing watch.

Hearts of Darkness is on par with the film it is about, which is probably a first, Apocalypse Now. You would have to find it on YouTube or download it or something, but it will fucking blow your mind how much went into the actual film.

I have been interested in this film for a long time as well, and it is said to be the first "documentary". It has an interesting story too, I think the original footage was lost or destroyed, and he had to go back and film all the footage! He went back and had the Eskimos act some of the same old things out that they did before, but also captured some other stuff, so people debate about it being a "true" documentary.



I could be wrong about that though, so don't hold me to it. I was wondering if anyone had seen it? And just getting it out there incase someone would be interested in that.



Night and Fog is another masterpiece, and is a must-see. It is a powerful film, and will just leave you in shock.

I have many more so I will come back with them sometime.

[lordofdance]

I cannot believe you mentioned that, it has been something I have been dying to see for so long now, ever since I saw the DVD at CD Warehouse and read-up on it, I put it on my queue, but haven't bumped it to the top because it has such a low rating, well pretty low. Glad to know you like it though, the idea sounded so interesting. Do you think I would like it? What is it like?

I was interested in seeing at first because Mike Vraney from Something Weird is one of the people interviewed in the film. I don't know if you'll like all of it, because most of the interviews are kind of dry, but learning the history behind these bizarre films is fascinating. Many of the film clips are gruesome and disturbing, and it's hard to believe that people would actually grab a camera and run off to real accidents in order to film the carnage so they could show the footage to high school students. It's all quite warped.

I really like it. I figure the subject matter alone will be enough to hold your attention.

[ie]

I like the occasional documentary. I think what happens, though, is I accidentally find documentaries. I found these by accident: Bus 174, Hamburger America, Buena Vista Social Club, Investigation Into The Invisible World, Missing Allen and Playing For Change. Advertising and the End of the World and Slim Hopes would also be included here, if you count watching them in class as accidental. I just think it might be good to go out and find some additional ones.

Well, I think Häxan shares a lot in common with An Inconvenient Truth. Subject matters are vastly different, but both have a narration that are trying to get to a particular point, and both use images (or in the former's case, re-enactments). I have a broad definition of documentaries, so I don't see much of a problem including it.

At this point, I'll just post a list of documentaries I want to refer to later, that I want to see / show to my friend. Don't mind this section. Thanks.

An Unreasonable Man
Dark Days
Grizzly Man
Hell's Highway: The True Story of Highway Safety Films
McLibel
Nanook of the North
Night and Fog
No Direction Home
Sick: The Life and Death of Bob Flanagan
Supermasochist
Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price
Who Killed The Electric Car?

I rewatched Super Size Me recently and thought it was really well done. I'd rather respond to what you didn't like about it, then try to predict what you didn't like about it. (Although, I must say, it was quite impressive to see a document showcasing how a food of any kind could affect you that quickly.)


Titicut Follies just didn't do it for me. I haven't seen more than some thirty minutes of it, but I just really feel like there was something lacking: narration. Even just a minimal amount to really get us involved - even if it risks the neutrality of the documentary - just something to be like "okay, this is what's happening, and here are how all of these events relate." You probably eventually piece together an idea of what's going on, but it's just not really that effective. I do need to finish it sometime, but it's not very important to me that I finish it, as of now.

Just one friend, who actually isn't really too interested in music. I know, a little weird, but it happens. And don't worry, I'll see Hearts of Darkness - after I see Apocalypse Now - and find it.


From what I read on Nanook of the North, I might group it in with the documentary movies. Sounds like some of it counts more as re-enactments than as authentic documentarian material, but we'll see sometime, I guess.

I heard about Night and Fog, if only because it was the least expensive Criterion DVD on Amazon.


I'm going to check out The Corporation soon. Sounds interesting.

[sacrilegend]

ie said:

I rewatched Super Size Me recently and thought it was really well done. I'd rather respond to what you didn't like about it, then try to predict what you didn't like about it. (Although, I must say, it was quite impressive to see a document showcasing how a food of any kind could affect you that quickly.)

Okay, I'll give you that one - I haven't rewatched it recently, but I have reasons. The last time I saw it, I was bored out of my mind and I couldn't believe how stupid this movie was. Don't we all know how bad McDonald's is? The same would've happened if he'd went to Burger King, KFC, or had fish fingers for a month straight. The documentary was endlessly pointless in my opinion.

Of course, if you don't follow a balanced diet for a whole month, some bad stuff are going to happen to you. Obvious? I know. I just despised every single minute of this movie. Ugh.

[ie]

Well, it's really not about McDonald's specifically. He just used them instead of, say, Burger King or KFC because that would have probably taken him twice as long.

I don't follow much of a balanced diet myself. I don't eat fruits or veggies, and today was the first day I've eaten salad in at least a month. So... yeah. And it's not like he had a radically different diet. Sure, his girlfriend is a vegetarian, which as you may know from Pulp Fiction: "Me, I can't usually eat 'em 'cause my girlfriend's a vegetarian. Which more or less makes me a vegetarian, but I sure love the taste of a good burger." Spurlock probably wasn't used to an all fast-food diet, but it wasn't like he went from eating all veggies to all junk food, he probably had other food as well.


The point of Super Size Me, though, was to really make a document saying that "yes, fast food really is bad for you." Sure, you have all the punkass bitches who left the movie thinking "It made me hungry!!~~ ^_^;;", but the point is, most Americans are just kind of in a lulled state. It may be different elsewhere, but here, shit happens and no one cares. So, if they get repeated warnings telling them how bad shit is for them, guess what, who cares? I mean, take smoking for example. Same thing, as Spurlock pointed out.

Basically, it's an argument against fast food in general, made in a format where people will actually take notice.

[sacrilegend]

Okay, what you say is true, but it really did make me hungry! But people are either going to listen, or they aren't. I just hated this movie through and through. It's so ngfjdksu ygvfugyVUYZvYJVuyFUGYJGFBIUFBV BBhBUIguvjviufvif. I can't say why anymore, you just blew all my explanations up. Goodness, I was eating a Big Mac allt he way through! I think what I'm trying to say is the same reason I give to vegans who try to make me talk to other people about veganism. I don't like it, because, as I said:

They're either going to listen, or they aren't. People either care, or they don't. If they've had enough fast food, they'll know what it does to their bodies. I don't know, maybe I'm just a wannnabe non-conformist, but that's my viewpoint. I went vegan because of all the meat-eaters around me. Long ago, I used to eat a rare, soppy steak in front of vegetarians. Let the blood dribble off my chin. Watch a little cooking channel. Pfff.

Okay, the movie was informative, but it still irritated the hell out of me. I'll think, maybe put myself through it again, and get back to you.

[ie]

Oh yeah, and as clarification, I meant that "punkass bitches" as just a general statement, not geared toward you specifically or anything. It just felt right to say that. I didn't mean to offend, even though I may not have, just wanted to clarify.

And also, it's alright that you don't like Super Size Me.


I guess there are just two kinds of responses that upset me when it comes to this movie:

1.) The thoughts on "makes me hungry for fast food!" do upset me, but it's understandable compared to the next response...

2.) When people try to create documentaries to challenge Super Size Me. Sure, it's alright if you make a documentary attempting this same McDiet and come out with different results; that's constructive, and can help make both documents more valid.

But I hate hate hate the people that make documentaries based on the McDiet, just to be like "Spurlock's wrong! Tee hee hee! I can do this same diet, and I actually lost weight! Therefore, Spurlock is a liar!" Or to gain fame through doing bullshit like that. That's just bullshit!


I didn't want to end on that note, so I'll write about Hamburger America a little bit. It's a documentary I randomly saw on the Sundance channel a little while ago, and does promote the hamburger, but it does so in an interesting way. The makers of the movie went around to various small-town burger stores, and while there is a focus on the "peanut butter burger" by most people who see it, the point of the movie is not simply to advertise these burgers. It's to show that fast food burgers are made in the least healthy way possible, and that it's not the burger that's bad. Burgers can be healthy if prepared well.

[sacrilegend]

Okay, I see. I haven't ever seen the challenges on it.

[criterionmaster]

Sorry ie, but after watching Super Size Me I went and ate a bunch of hamburgers lol. But that doesn't mean I didn't love the film, yeah it was an extreme situation, but it was still an interesting film/study. I wouldn't mind watching it again actually, it was quite fun for me to watch.

ie said:

Titicut Follies just didn't do it for me. I haven't seen more than some thirty minutes of it, but I just really feel like there was something lacking: narration. Even just a minimal amount to really get us involved - even if it risks the neutrality of the documentary - just something to be like "okay, this is what's happening, and here are how all of these events relate." You probably eventually piece together an idea of what's going on, but it's just not really that effective. I do need to finish it sometime, but it's not very important to me that I finish it, as of now.

Just one friend, who actually isn't really too interested in music. I know, a little weird, but it happens. And don't worry, I'll see Hearts of Darkness - after I see Apocalypse Now - and find it.


From what I read on Nanook of the North, I might group it in with the documentary movies. Sounds like some of it counts more as re-enactments than as authentic documentarian material, but we'll see sometime, I guess.

I heard about Night and Fog, if only because it was the least expensive Criterion DVD on Amazon.

Yeah, further into the film it becomes more evident what the film is about. You already know this, but I really want you to finish it, even if you don't like it, at least you will have seen it. And it is a film by one of the most important documentary filmmakers (or so I have heard).

Yeah, and Night and Fog is well-worth it, despite it only being 30 minutes and only having a 6 minute interview on there, it seems like so much more. It may be the best piece I have ever seen on the Holocaust, which is saying a lot. If you wait a while, you will probably be able to get the film for like $10 or less, so just keep your eye out for that one. It is so short I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up online somewhere/sometime (Google, YouTube, etc.).

I got another great documentary to add:

Children Underground



It is a film that follows a bunch of kids, homeless, and living on the streets of Romania. It is really disturbing to watch, but it is just so interesting and fucked up. I can kinda imagine things like it happening to adults, but I never thought all this stuff could happen to kids. Watching them taking drugs and start drooling was insane. It is definitely a film that must be seen, I was surprised by how good it was actually. Came out in 2001.

IMDB: imdb.com/title/tt0264476/

[ie]

You silly kids and your hamburgers!


Well, it's not that I'm avoiding Titicut Follies because I don't like it or anything. It just didn't interest me any of the times I tried to watch it, but was only able to get so far before getting bored with it. But I'll get around to finishing it someday, it's just I have plenty of more movies I'd either love to see, like to see, should see or might want to see first. (That's pretty low on the list righ there... )


Oh yeah, I think nonfiction recommended Children Underground a little while ago to me.


Still haven't seen the Corporation.

[criterionmaster]

ie said:

You silly kids and your hamburgers!


Well, it's not that I'm avoiding Titicut Follies because I don't like it or anything. It just didn't interest me any of the times I tried to watch it, but was only able to get so far before getting bored with it. But I'll get around to finishing it someday, it's just I have plenty of more movies I'd either love to see, like to see, should see or might want to see first. (That's pretty low on the list righ there... )


Oh yeah, I think nonfiction recommended Children Underground a little while ago to me.


Still haven't seen the Corporation.

Well, no matter how long it takes, I still will look forward to your thoughts on that bad boy. Well, I think nonfiction can be trusted, especially in this case. Such an amazing film.

Anyways, I think this fits here, and since it is one of my favorite documentaries, and probably many others, here it is:

(from hollywood saloon) From GEORGE HICKENLOOPER:

First, Francis controls the rights to "Hearts of Darnkess." The Criterion Collection has expressed interest in releasing it on DVD but Francis wants me to make some editorial changes before it goes out. I am not sure what the changes are but I think they surround his comment "Marty's not dead until I say he's dead." In the current cut of the film, this statement is made in the context of Sheen's heart attack. I think he wants to be add a piece that basically shows us that he made this comment in response to rumors flying back to Hollywood that the film was going to be shut down. I have told Francis I think this is a fair change and I am just wating to get word from him. The last time we spoke of this was three years ago at lunch in Denver with mayor John Hickenlooper (yes, related).

End.

[joshuaost]

What about D.A. Pennebaker's "Don't Look Back"? This documentary captures Dylan at a crucial turning point in his life and I don't think there is a better documentary on Dylan or on any musician for that matter. Unlike other documentaries, this just doesn't display a bunch of talking heads that ramble on about how great Dylan was but actually puts you in the room with Dylan. Through most of the film it's as if the camera isn't even there and I couldn't believe the footage that Pennebaker was able to get. If you have not seen this film yet I urge you to go out and rent it (or even better, buy it) right now!

[criterionmaster]

joshuaost said:

What about D.A. Pennebaker's "Don't Look Back"? This documentary captures Dylan at a crucial turning point in his life and I don't think there is a better documentary on Dylan or on any musician for that matter. Unlike other documentaries, this just doesn't display a bunch of talking heads that ramble on about how great Dylan was but actually puts you in the room with Dylan. Through most of the film it's as if the camera isn't even there and I couldn't believe the footage that Pennebaker was able to get. If you have not seen this film yet I urge you to go out and rent it (or even better, buy it) right now!

criterionmaster said:

If they like Bob Dylan, or music, then another favorite is No Direction Home. A fantastic talking heads doc. And for another Dylan doc, Don't Look Back, you don't even have to like Dylan in order to enjoy that. He is such an interesting character and it is an amazing watch.

Waaay ahead of you my friend, but boy do I agree. I go back and forth between which doc about Dylan I like more. Are you referencing No Direction Home when you said: "Unlike other documentaries, this just doesn't display a bunch of talking heads that ramble on about how great Dylan was"? Anyways, I heard a rumor that some of the footage of Don't Look Back was Dylan putting on a "show" and acting different for the camera, whereas some of the other stuff was really him behaving like that. I can't back this up, so maybe someone else knows? But either way, just watching Dylan is so entertaining and crazy. LOVE Dylan!

[criterionmaster]

Another music documentary I got to recommend, and one that is probably obvious, and that is Woodstock. It is so well-made, and the performances (musical) are excellent, especially from the less popular bands. It captures the time perfectly, and is so much fun to watch. It didn't even seem long at all, to me. Anyone else a fan?

Oh yeah, and ie, I know you liked Boondock Saints, or at least a little, well you have to see the film Overnight. Have you heard of it before? PLOT: "A documentary on the rise and stumble of Troy Duffy, the bartender-cum-filmmaker who was swept up by Miramax's Harvey Weinstein to turn his script for The Boondock Saints into a feature film." It is insane to see how badly this guy ruined his career, I mean, if you think fame went to Bogdonavich's head, look at this dude. You will probably love it, I don’t really see how you wouldn't, it is super interesting. Anyone seen this?



I have been watching many documentaries recently, so I will be back to this thread.

[ie]

I haven't bothered with Overnight, but yes, I did enjoy the Boondock Saints.

As for good documentaries, that recommendation for Dark Days did not disappoint. Great documentary on homeless individuals that will really teach you a thing or two about those lazy old "bums." Man, markets and everything. They just don't pay taxes.

[ie]

So, I saw about twenty-five minutes of the Corporation before I started to think. I was like "hmm... there is not a shred of evidence in this entire movie..." And here they were claiming stuff even a friend of mine interested in politics and history's never heard before, that "between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought to the Supreme Court dealing with the 14th amendment. Out of the 307 only 19 cases were made by African Americans, while the other 288 came from corporate lawyers seeking "equal" rights for their corporate entities." (Zepernick)

No sources in the credits. None on the website. None on the Wikipedia article. I can't find a credible source relating to Zepernick. Michael Moore is a smooth talker, but he makes up facts so even if he did have some sources who knows how accurate or impartial they'd be. Also, if that whole 14th Amendment business were true, there'd be stuff on the records; they'd want to show that stuff off to be like "you know what, these corporations really are taking advantage of people, and here's how."


Do you know what I say to that? The Corporation is a load of bollocks for having no credible sources.

[Clark Nova]

How anyone can think that Hoop Dreams is too long is beyond me...this is 5 years of these kids and their families' lives, after all. Hell, it felt short to me.

But anyway, that and Hearts of Darkness are pretty much the only 2 docs that i'll orgasm over.

[ie]

police386 said:

But anyway, that and Hearts of Darkness are pretty much the only 2 docs that i'll orgasm over.

Those are pretty much the only two documentaries you've ever bothered with.

Hoop Dreams bores me because I don't care for basketball, so that aspect just went on and on, and the other half of the movie involves these people who do have sympathetic stories, but I could never really "feel" sorry for them. They were gamblers; they put a good amount of money and effort into basketball, instead of slot machines, and now shit's bad because they lost. I don't mean to be insensitive, but that's the way I see it, I can't go around throwing my sympathy to everyone because some people just leech off that sympathy and don't try to do a fucking thing to help themselves. That's just my opinion on the movie, since you wanted it.

[Clark Nova]

don't try to do a fucking thing to help themselves? How about Arthur's mom graduating her nursing school with the highest grades in the class? or his dad giving up crime and drugs? And these kids have a natural gift for the game of basketball, and for kids who just aren't cut out for getting into a higher learning institution on academics alone need athletic ability to get by in the world, if not to actually get to the pros (1 in thousands actually become professional athletes), at least to get that scholarship so they at least have an opportunity. So before you criticize people like these when you and I have probably had plenty more opportunities than them, just consider how this economic bracket is much larger in this country than you're letting on.

[ie]

Standard argument there: you must always feel sorry for people that are worse off than you.

Also, you're just trying to prove me wrong, which puts me on the offense. I then block your little jabbing attempts at trying to convince me that I should think differently. Next time, don't get in my face, kid, because shit like that doesn't work.

[criterionmaster]

also, you don't, at least i didn't, need to feel sorry for them to enjoy watching the film. it was a great rise and fall story, and in most films like that, the lead character(s) aren't likable, so even if somehow you didn't find them to be sympathetic, which i can kinda see, then there is always that other way of looking at it. if that makes sense.

i watched the dvd heavy metal parking lot recently, which had that short documentary film, and all of its sequels. the film itself was fantastic, and really funny, not well made, but had a charm to it. what amazes me, is how these dudes were the first people to think of something so simple as to film a bunch of drunks in the parking lot at a rock concert. some of the stuff in the film was hilarious, like the dude who hated punk so much. worth watching, especially if you lived in the 80's.

the dvd was packed, with nearly three hours of stuff, for a 15 minute short. the sequels were on here (neil diamond parking lot, harry potter parking lot, etc.) and were all funny and good as well. worth renting.

[captainofbeef]

^That is such a classic. JUDAS PRIEST!!!!!!!! LOL!

[criterionmaster]

captainofbeef said:

^That is such a classic. JUDAS PRIEST!!!!!!!! LOL!

are you a fan or thier music? i watched and listened to so much of it with the special features and all, but i am just not a fan. but yes, the film is a classic.

[captainofbeef]

Yea, I like their early stuff...

[ie]

Rise and Fall stories bore me like little others, because that's the entire plot right there. Character rises, character falls, character might rise again for the ending.

Anyways, documentaries...
I've heard of the Parking Lot series, but haven't really bothered to check it out too much.


I caught a little bit of Bus 174 on television today, and it reminded me of how great of a documentary it is. The people who put it together were able to gain access to archival footage of the event - the event being a bus hijacking in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil - so you'd have people commenting on the situation, and then you'd SEE the situation, since the press were actually right up against the bus for most of the event. Also shows you the culture of the area like City of God, only in a documentary setting so you might feel like you're learning more.

Do you guys like watching the packaged-in documentaries for movies on DVD? You know, like the ones that appear as extras? Are they just masturbatory discourses or do they help you appreciate the movie more? If so, give a couple examples.

[ie]

Also, TMBG fans probably know about this one: Gigantic. I saw it a while ago, good information, put together well, had some good music too. 8/10.