Blaxploitation

[criterionmaster]

Any fans?

[lordofdance]

If you're interested in popular culture at all, you really should check out at least some of the better known Blaxploitation movies. It's one of the most influential movements in cinematic history.

Foxy Brown is one of my favorite movies. Most people seem to like Coffy more, but the character Foxy Brown is a serious badass. Coffy always seemed kind of wishy washy to me. Don't get me wrong, Coffy is a badass in her own way, but Foxy is vengeance personified. Both movies have some good catfights, though. Foxy Brown takes on a bar full of lesbians, while Coffy beats on a bunch of prostitutes. Both are high quality battles. Here are some ratings of movies I've seen recently or many times (out of *****):

Foxy Brown ****
Coffy ***1/2
Superfly ***
Across 110th Street ***
Cotton Comes to Harlem ***1/2
Sweet Sweetback **1/2

[ie]

To me at least, I'm thinking that my introduction to Blaxploitation should be the original: Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song. I'm slightly surprised that you rated it so low, but I imagine you have some reasons and since I haven't seen it myself, I couldn't really read them, so that's fine.

[criterionmaster]

I actually haven't seen any blaxploitation films myself, all I have seen is a fantastic documentary on blaxploitation that had tons of clips and stuff, so it made me really interested in seeing some of the films. And of course I have seen Tarantino's homage to blaxploitation, Jackie Brown. So I will throw some on my queue. I'll go with Foxy Brown and Coffy, I have already seen a film by the director I think, Switchblade Sisters (?), which was fun as hell.

[captainofbeef]

Foxy Brown and Sweet Sweetback are fun. Superfly is actually a good movie!

[lordofdance]

I have seen Tarantino's homage to blaxploitation, Jackie Brown. I'll go with Foxy Brown and Coffy, I have already seen a film by the director I think, Switchblade Sisters (?), which was fun as hell.

Jack Hill directed all three movies, and Switchblade Sisters is a really good one (***1/2 out of *****). Pam Grier (lead actress in Jackie Brown) appears in Foxy Brown and Coffy. Jackie Brown is a much more refined version of a Blaxploitation movie. Most of them are quite a bit rougher and grittier.

To me at least, I'm thinking that my introduction to Blaxploitation should be the original: Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song. I'm slightly surprised that you rated it so low, but I imagine you have some reasons and since I haven't seen it myself, I couldn't really read them, so that's fine.

Foxy Brown and Sweet Sweetback are fun. Superfly is actually a good movie!

Sweet Sweetback is an experimental film stylistically. To me, it often seems like an old school music video much of the time. It's by far the grittiest Blaxploitation movie I've seen, but its style is kind of grating to me at times.

Superfly is pretty good (the soundtrack helps), but it's definitely not an action movie. Some people might watch it expecting lots of ass-kicking, but it's really more of a drama.

[ie]

That's good to know that, you know basically, Sweet Sweetback is really gritty, whereas Jackie Brown is more refined. I'm not sure when I'll watch Sweet Sweetback, but hopefully it'll be within the next few months. Good target range, I guess.

[lordofdance]

ie said:

That's good to know that, you know basically, Sweet Sweetback is really gritty, whereas Jackie Brown is more refined. I'm not sure when I'll watch Sweet Sweetback, but hopefully it'll be within the next few months. Good target range, I guess.

Sweet Sweetback is a down and dirty film. It's sexually graphic, violent and hardcore anti-establishment. And, as I mentioned, visually experimental. I'm curious to hear your opinion of it. All the other Blaxploitation movies I've seen are much more straightforward.

[ie]

lordofdance said:

ie said:

That's good to know that, you know basically, Sweet Sweetback is really gritty, whereas Jackie Brown is more refined. I'm not sure when I'll watch Sweet Sweetback, but hopefully it'll be within the next few months. Good target range, I guess.

Sweet Sweetback is a down and dirty film. It's sexually graphic, violent and hardcore anti-establishment. And, as I mentioned, visually experimental. I'm curious to hear your opinion of it. All the other Blaxploitation movies I've seen are much more straightforward.

I'll post my thoughts here when I watch it, don't worry.

[ie]

Saw the first forty minutes of Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song a couple days ago, and finished it tonight. I was actually kind of suprised that I finally saw it because you know how I can forget things , but I did, so here goes some spoiler-ful thoughts, with plot events marked just in case:


First of all, I kind of forgot this movie was going to be so gritty and low budget looking. I was especially surprised because as a special 30th anniversary edition, I thought they would have cleaned it up some more.

SPOILER: Click to show

The editing also wasn't very impressive, especially toward the end. For example, toward the end he gets shot or something. I must have missed that, and I was following along, because I think he was holding part of his guts in his hand and then he pissed on the ground and used it to cover his would? Whaat? And then how Peebles was fixated on the gory dead dogs at the end? Entirely odd.

You were right, though, it was a very, very dirty movie. I forgot what you wrote so maybe it was better because it was a little shocking to me, but it wasn't too bad or anything.


This was just my impression, but I noticed that while racism was on display in the movie, it wasn't the kind that "all whites are bad, the bad bad" or "all whites are stupid." Sure, for the most part there were racist white people throughout the movie, but I guess what I mean is that the white characters in the background didn't seem overtly racist or anything, and the white girl toward the beginning was even willing to go for a ride on the Sweet Sweetback express.

I think that, by making sure that not every white person in the movie was at least overtly racist, it would make the racist whites seem out of place and unreasonable. This is important because otherwise, it'd just be normal and that doesn't really make for good social commentary.


Overall, the movie was a positive experience.
It had its fair share of flaws, so I could see why you gave it two and a half stars, lordofdance, but I thought it was a worthwhile movie. I'd like to talk about the movie some more, but in terms of my own rating, I'd give it an 8/10.

[lordofdance]

You should watch Baadasssss!. It's the movie about the making of Sweet Sweetback.

Many of the Blaxploitation movies that came out after this movie didn't really have a political agenda or a black director. Sweet Sweetback probably had the noblest intentions behind its creation out of other movies in the genre. The director, Melvin Van Peebles, really wanted to make a social statement with the movie, and he very nearly killed himself getting it finished. The movie itself, though, doesn't appeal to me on an aesthetic level. I appreciate his willingness to experiment, but I don't like the style of the movie. I'm not a black person during the early 70's, so the radical message doesn't have quite the power for me that it would have back then.

[criterionmaster]

lordofdance said:

Superfly ***

I watched this on Netflix yesterday, and really enjoyed it. This would be my first Blaxploitation, unless you count Jackie Brown as well as the documentary Badassss Cinema. There were flaws, which included pacing problems, but it was so much fun. The soundtrack really pushed it to make it really good. Mayfield's "Pusher Man" is so great. The performances were also very good and fun. I would recommend it. What were your thoughts on the film? Did you also find problems with the pacing? The photography is great, too.



I love how bad the white people are in the film, when the one says "sucka" I knew I was going to be quoting that one for a while. haha.

[ie]

Supu Furai.


I noticed the pacing problem with Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song (two a's, five s's) as well. The lord should be able to help answer the question of whether this is common, and if so, maybe guess as to why. If not, that's fine too.

[criterionmaster]

i saw coffy, as you may have seen, and it is better than superfly, in my opinion. i really loved it. pam grier was fantastically bad ass, and hot. there was even a whole cat fight between her and a bunch of women, where tons of food was thrown. it was classic. sid haig was soo great, i loved his accent, and everything about it. the soundtrack was super cheesy and fun. it is definitely worth checking out, if only to see pam grier in action. probably an 8/10. i also watched it with commentary, which was really good, too. next up on my list: foxy brown.


you go, girl.

[lordofdance]

Supu Furai.

I noticed the pacing problem with Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song (two a's, five s's) as well. The lord should be able to help answer the question of whether this is common, and if so, maybe guess as to why. If not, that's fine too.

Pacing problems are probably common with a good number of exploitation movies, particularly the ones made with a $2 budget and a weeked shooting schedule. I could be wrong, but pacing issues are likely just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to these sorts of movies. Some are better made than others, but still. Not all the people cranking these movies out cared that much about making a good movie or a well-made one; they just wanted quick cash to roll in.

i saw coffy, as you may have seen, and it is better than superfly, in my opinion. i really loved it. pam grier was fantastically bad ass, and hot. there was even a whole cat fight between her and a bunch of women, where tons of food was thrown. it was classic. sid haig was soo great, i loved his accent, and everything about it. the soundtrack was super cheesy and fun. it is definitely worth checking out, if only to see pam grier in action. probably an 8/10. i also watched it with commentary, which was really good, too. next up on my list: foxy brown.

I agree that Coffy is better than Superfly, and pretty much all the other Blaxploitation movies I've seen aside from Foxy Brown. Jack Hill just knows how to make good movies, it appears. Of course, Pam Grier is a fox, even if her acting skills are a little rough.

[criterionmaster]

lordofdance said:

i saw coffy, as you may have seen, and it is better than superfly, in my opinion. i really loved it. pam grier was fantastically bad ass, and hot. there was even a whole cat fight between her and a bunch of women, where tons of food was thrown. it was classic. sid haig was soo great, i loved his accent, and everything about it. the soundtrack was super cheesy and fun. it is definitely worth checking out, if only to see pam grier in action. probably an 8/10. i also watched it with commentary, which was really good, too. next up on my list: foxy brown.

I agree that Coffy is better than Superfly, and pretty much all the other Blaxploitation movies I've seen aside from Foxy Brown. Jack Hill just knows how to make good movies, it appears. Of course, Pam Grier is a fox, even if her acting skills are a little rough.

yeah, i agree that pam isn't a great actress, but i did really think she did a fantastic job in jackie brown, didn't you? i thought it was even oscar-nom worthy. i really look forward to foxy brown, though. i don't know really anything about it, but if it is better than coffy, i should really like it.
i have seen two films from jack hill now, he is really great. any films of his you would recommend that i haven't seen? (i have seen switchblade sisters as well as coffy, obviously)

[lordofdance]

This one's coming out on 9/25. Haven't seen it yet, but it's supposed to be weird. Not a Blaxploitation picture, but I believe it's Jack Hill's first movie. I will be buying it!

[ie]

lordofdance said:

This one's coming out on 9/25. Haven't seen it yet, but it's supposed to be weird. Not a Blaxploitation picture, but I believe it's Jack Hill's first movie. I will be buying it!

I saw this recently. It isn't a blaxploitation, and even though he made Coffy and Foxy Brown, he's made just as many women in prison flicks, so myself, I'd file him under general exploitation.

Anyways, good movie. I'm surprised you hadn't seen it. It's a classic.