The Smashing Pumpkins

[PTAhole]

Since there's so much discussion about them here anyway...

GISH (1991)
SIAMESE DREAM (1993)
PISCES ISCARIOT (1994)
MELLON COLLIE AND THE INFINITE SADDNESS (1995)
ADORE (1998)
MACHINA: THE MACHINES OF GOD (2000)
MACHINA II (2000)
UNTITLED NEW ALBUM (2007)

[captainofbeef]

Don't care for 'em. And I have heard all of their records. Most people here know my opinions already, but if they must be restated, I will do it.

[PTAhole]

To respond to your post in the YouTube thread:

Fine, how about this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=syHlNbRGCic
Or this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3piyO5veDI
I'm fine with you disliking the band, but you never give a good reason for your "they suck live" claims. Obviously you wouldn't like them live if you don't like them anyway, but what about these are so inconsistant with the studio versions?

[captainofbeef]

Its not that the they are inconsistent with the studio versions, its just that they have no energy, seriously that version of Blew Away, they are so robotic, even the guitar solo is pulled off with very little feeling. I would be so bored at one of their concerts because they just seem like one of those bands that doesn't deliver an actual show, they just show up and have an attitude that is like "We are here playing our music, worship us." I just don't like performers like that.

[PTAhole]

Ah, I see.

[winterhat]

fantastic band. while many other bands' music from the time period sounds dated (nirvana), you can play siamese dream today and it feels current. the slower songs have incredible hooks and lyrics, and their heavier rock songs DESTROY 99% of the bands in existence.

[captainofbeef]

I really don't think In Utero or any of the other grunge stuff (Pearl Jam, AIC, Soundgarden, Mother Love Bone) sounds dated. But maybe thats just me. Siamese Dream is probably there best record, and even I liked it at one point. But after a re-listen, I just don't feel its strength anymore.

99% of bands?? That's pretty bold stuff right there. Care to explain why?

[winterhat]

'dated' probably isn't the best word for what i mean, but if you hear nirvana or older pearl jam on the radio, you look down and the dial and it's probably a classic rock channel. smashing pumpkins sound like no other before or since, so the music has a certain feel all it's own. you could easily play 'zero' on someone's CD player today and if they had no knowledge of SP, they'd think they were new. mellon collie is the cd (double cd) that ties it all together. everyone's fav is usually siamese dream, but mellon collie is also a masterpiece. listen to 'an ode to no one' on that CD (headphones preferably) and you'll understand my 99% claim. OR 'silverfuck' on SD!? how can you not feel it's power? if members of bands these days listened to that song, their heads would explode...literally. they'd be all lulled into a trance....and dozing to it's quiet, magical, whispers...only to have it 'silverfuck' them right in the ears. disarm? c'mon, you're just teasing me. those songs (and many others) are genius.

[captainofbeef]

I think that Smashing Pumpkins sound more like classic rock than Jam or Nirvana. I would even compare them to those blown up seventies progressive rock bands. They have some rockers and they eventually got more and more experimental, then with Mellon Collie, they produced a bloated beast of self indulgence that only those much maligned seventies bands could produce.

Silverfuck is a great song musically, until Billy starts singing. His nasal whine just takes any power out of that song for me. Disarm is my least favorite Pumpkins song, those damn bells, Corgan's whine, and repetitive lyrics just kill that song.

[winterhat]

noone sound like sp and sp sound like noone else...so to say they sound like 'classic rock' is completely wrong. afterall, they don't sound like anyone. who has ever been compared to them or who have they ever been compared too? noone. 70's rock? that's ridiculous. they sound absolutely NOTHING like anyone from that decade. if so, name the bands. and, 'that bloated beast of self indulgence' is the pseudo intellectual talk that i hate. that means nothing. it's critic speak for 'i don't like them, so let me say something that sounds like i know what i am talking about.' when you hear nirvana, you KNOW it's from a little period of time buried several years ago....that stood for nothing...except complaining. so, yeah, i was right when i said 'dated'. as for corgan's nasal whine? can anyone understand a single word cobain says/sings? (well...does anyone WANT to know what he said/sang?) their music is slowly slipping down 'all-time' charts because people no longer fear being called 'uncool' for telling the truth...average band, right time period, died young and then got WAY TOO much credit because he did. pearl jam i like...however, he sings MANY songs COMPLETELY through his nose without one discernable phonic.

[captainofbeef]

winterhat said:

noone sound like sp and sp sound like noone else...so to say they sound like 'classic rock' is completely wrong. afterall, they don't sound like anyone. who has ever been compared to them or who have they ever been compared too? noone. 70's rock? that's ridiculous. they sound absolutely NOTHING like anyone from that decade. if so, name the bands. and, 'that bloated beast of self indulgence' is the pseudo intellectual talk that i hate. that means nothing. it's critic speak for 'i don't like them, so let me say something that sounds like i know what i am talking about.' when you hear nirvana, you KNOW it's from a little period of time buried several years ago....that stood for nothing...except complaining. so, yeah, i was right when i said 'dated'. as for corgan's nasal whine? can anyone understand a single word cobain says/sings? (well...does anyone WANT to know what he said/sang?) their music is slowly slipping down 'all-time' charts because people no longer fear being called 'uncool' for telling the truth...average band, right time period, died young and then got WAY TOO much credit because he did. pearl jam i like...however, he sings MANY songs COMPLETELY through his nose without one discernable phonic.

Ok ok, classic rock was not exactly what I wanted to say. I more wanted to say that they sound like a 70's era arena rock band, which are really good, in the right hands. Billy Corgan does not have the voice for 70's arena rock.

Ok, for Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, the Pumpkins adopted the double album concept. Now for the record, I think the double album thing has only truly worked in entirety for two bands in the history of music, The Beatles and Zeppelin. So in making this album, Corgan, lets pass up the formalities and just start calling the Pumpkins "Corgan" why don't we? After all, the other members of the band have very little to no input on the final product. And don't give me any "Iha writes songs" bullshit because Corgan obviously has final control over his stuff too. Anyway, back to MCATIS. There are way too many sounds clashing on this record. Too much experimentation and very little of it works. If the Pumpkins had stuck to their guns and made a double record, it might have been halfway decent. But the one they ended up with was a piece of trash that I could barely believe my ears were hearing.

I'm not a big Nirvana fan at all. Cobain is overrated, though his band is not, if you get my point. He wasn't that great of a singer, he was a shitty guitarist, and he had an impossible ego. But there is no denying that Dave Grohl is one of the best drummers of all time, plus the muddy bass and distorted guitars defined a genre. Cobain's lyrics are not really that bad, and the only time you can't really hear his voice is on a their most famous song. Most of the time it isn't really that hard to discern what he is saying.

Hmm, on what songs does Vedder sing through his nose on? Cause I have seen them live, and have every record, I think he definitely is a guy who uses more of his throat than his nose.

[criterionmaster]

youtube.com/watch?v=eIJ9-QS6Sp4

I will just post that as proof that they are amazing live. Continue this debate. Although I don't quite understand how their experimentation doesn't work, in fact most of the time I like when bands try something new for a change, don't keep giving me the same thing over and over. Not to mention, besides that you didn't say anything about the actual record. That is all, for now.

[winterhat]

ok, veder does grumble through his throat, and not his nose, for the most part. i like veder.

cobain i can do without and at last someone else admits that cobain is overrated.

corgan is sp, no doubt, so if you don't like corgan or his voice, then there's not much chance of getting you to like their records. corgan's voice....sp fans love it, non-fans hate it. sounds like a rock god to us, a cat getting run over to them.

mellon collie does wander all over the place, but that's one of the things people liked about it. and...that piece of trash your ears were hearing was the biggest selling double CD of all time. 10,000,000 and counting. obviously, popularity does not equal quality, but it's a big clue especially if it is self-indulgent or experimental and it still sells.

as for live, i've never seen them live and i doubt anyone else has on this forum...but, i am sure it's more than you think (corgan standing there demanding worship)

corgan is UNDERRATED. he wrote, sang, and played EVERY instrument (save the drums) on the entire siamese dream cd HIMSELF. that CD, regardless of whether you are out of love with it presently, is almost universally considered a rock masterpiece. and, it's ALL corgan...no sp in the studio.

[captainofbeef]

The video you posted Dan was performed before the band got famous. When they did, Corgan and the rest of the band decided that they didn't need to perform anymore, all they needed to do was play their stuff and people would love them. Compare that video with some that Tim posted and you will see what I mean.

I am aware that he performed the entire album by himself. He is talented as a musician, I will give him that.

[criterionmaster]

Winterhat told me that he read someone died in a pit at a Smashing Pumpkins concert so Corgan doesn't like pits now. Which is why he changed up his live performances style a little bit.

[captainofbeef]

Just because people can't pit at a show doesn't mean he can't still perform with emotion. He just has to play venues where pits are not allowed.

[criterionmaster]

[blackmoses]

I have never been more excited!

[criterionmaster]

Some tour dates

Look at who they are playing with (!): Korn, DMB, Aerosmith, Slayer, Pearl Jam, Linken Park, Artic Monkeys, and many more.

[captainofbeef]

Too bad all the dates are in Europe. 06/02 means late summer tour for DMB. FUCK!

[captainofbeef]

Smashing Pumpkins to Preview "Zeitgeist" on Tour

The long-awaited return of the Smashing Pumpkins gets closer with the announcement that Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlain will preview new songs at their Paris Grand Rex show on May 22, reports Y! Music.

The Smashing Pumpkins album entitled Zeitgeist is the first new release under the Pumpkins name since Machina/The Machines Of God in 2000.

Zeitgest has been co-produced by CorgaN, Chamberlain, and producers Roy Thomas Baker and Terry Date working separately on different tracks.

The studio album is due for release this July through Reprise Records.

The band will play several European festivals and concerts throughout the summer, including the Carling Reading/Leeds weekends in the U.K.

05/22 - Paris, France, Grand Rex
05/28 - Landgraaf, Netherlands, Pinkpop
05/31 - Barcelona, Spain, Primavera Sound Festival
06/02 - Nurburgring, Germany, Nurburgring Race Track
06/03 - Nuremberg, Ger Zeppelinfeld
06/09 - Lisbon, Portugal, Super Rock
06/12 - Madrid, Spain, Las Ventas
06/15 - Nickelsdorf, Austria Nova Rock
06/16 - Imola (Venice), Italy Heineken Jammin' Festival
06/17 - Interlaken, Swtz, Greenfield Festival
08/08 - Washington, DC, V Festival at Pimlico Park
08/24 - Leeds, England, Leeds Festival
08/26 - Reading, England, Reading Festival
09/09 - Toronto, ON, V Festival

[criterionmaster]

i think i just heard the new single by smashing pumpkins, but i have no idea. it was on the radio, does anyone know what it is called or if they even released one? it was really good if it was one.

[blackmoses]

I think they changed the cover of the album to this



Here are the tracks and times:
1. Doomsday Clock 3:41
2. 7 Shades of Black 3:15
3. Bleeding the Orchid 3:58
4. That's the Way (My Love Is) 3:44
5.Tarantula 3:47
6. Starz 3:41
7. United States 9:50
8. Never Lost 4:13
9. Bring the Light 3:35
10. (Come On) Let's Go! 3:15
11. For God and Country 4:51
12. Pomp and Circumstance 4:18

Dan, I think the song was called Tarantula.

[criterionmaster]

?

[PTAhole]

Really like "Tarantula," not a big fan of the cover.

[criterionmaster]

Yeah, "Tarantula" is a really great song. Let’s hope it is a good sign the album will be good.

[winterhat]

'zeitgeist' is amazing.

i'm a huge SP (corgan) fan, but not a fan of 'machina'...and 'zwan' blew ass....so i've been (im)patiently waiting for something new since 'adore'.

i bought it today and put it into my CD player with MUCH APPREHENSION! i was afraid it would be weak like 'zwan' and i'd have to defend a piece of crap.

well, THERE ARE NO weak spots on this CD!

so many GREAT songs, it's hard to decide so soon...but, my favorite is 'united states' - it's pure power. fantastic in an MUSICALLY EPIC way that many attempt to duplicate, but seldom few do. SP does 'epic' best.

whatever they (corgan and the people standing around him) are called whether it's solo, or SP, or Zwan, it's always corgan that gets the credit or the blame. i think he deserves a great deal of credit for this disc.

the critics all spew the popular mindless complaints (it's not 'siamese dream', 'where's iha and darcy', etc) but NEVER address the songs themselves.

if you hate SP to begin with, don't listen....you've made up your mind already. you'll give it a token listen, just so you can say that you've heard it and you hate it. geez, thanks for that 'enlightened' input.

if you're on the fence...and if you listen with an open mind....it's pleasant and powerful on first listen.....and BRILLIANT with subsequent spins.

if you're already a fan...RUN to 'target' and buy the CD.

you won't take it out of your CD collection's 'heavy rotation' list for months....or years.

whatever scale you use...i give it the highest rating...5/5, 4/4, 10/10, two thumbs way up.

[PTAhole]

I loved it, too. My favorite songs on there were "That's the Way (My Love Is)" "United States" (indeed epic), "Death From Above," "Bring the Light,"(Come On) Let's Go!" "For God and Country," and "Pomp and Circumstances." It isn't as good as Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, but very few albums are. I'd put it on the same level as Gish and Adore. Really liked it. (oh, and if you're planning on buying it, get it from Best Buy. The bonus track, "Death From Above" is on there, plus the cover is orange instead of red)

[criterionmaster]

ptahole said:

I loved it, too. My favorite songs on there were "That's the Way (My Love Is)" "United States" (indeed epic), "Death From Above," "Bring the Light,"(Come On) Let's Go!" "For God and Country," and "Pomp and Circumstances." It isn't as good as Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, but very few albums are. I'd put it on the same level as Gish and Adore. Really liked it. (oh, and if you're planning on buying it, get it from Best Buy. The bonus track, "Death From Above" is on there, plus the cover is orange instead of red)

i got the one from target, which i hear is better than the one from best buy, and mine has the bonus track "zeitgeist" and a purple cover. like we were talking about, it is stupid they did different bonus tracks at different places, i wish it was just both bonus tracks on each, so i wasn't missing anything.